1962 "Bucks" aluminum proof plate

[mmcgruff]

This is a 1962 Topps Baseball Bucks proof plate and was curious to know more about it and to see if any one may be interested in it? It is flimsy, thin, and feels like aluminum.
Thanks a lot for looking..........

[steve B]

Looks like a portion of one of the plates for a promo flyer. Is it a B+W scan or is it actually black? Pretty odd if it is black. The blank area at the top would be the lower half of a players face, and I'd expect some halftone there.

I might be interested.

Steve B

[mmcgruff]

It is black with a gray bottom.

[bbcard1]

that would square with the printing technology of the time.

[drc]

The black would just be the ink on it. Nothing errant about that. You'll see aluminum proofs for Topps cards from the same period.

[steve B]

But that's exactly what seems odd to me. I'd be surprised to see the promo flyer with a solid black background, but with no shading on the picture sections. It certainly does look like that's what they did though. Thin aluminum with a gray surface on one side is what the plates were like (And probably still are)

Anyone have a pic of the actual flyer?

Steve B

[drc]

I'm confident it's genuine.

[mmcgruff]

I appreciate all your comments on this guys. I paid $30.00 for it off of ebay several years ago and still have the note attached to it from the seller.

[mmcgruff]

I know it sounds very cheap especially if it is authentic. In case it is not, then I won't sweat it. Happened long ago and it's out the window.

[drc]

I don't know why it wouldn't be authentic. I've never seen a forged aluminum proof, and if someone was going to make a forgery it would be of Mantle card or something on that order, not a half done add like this. Also aluminum of Topps products exist, most coming from the Topps archives.

That's why I said I was confident it was genuine.

I had a few aluminum prrofs for period Topps football cards from the 1989 Topps Archive auction, and they were similar. Black and white on thin aluminum and with incomplete graphics.

[laughlinfan]

Anyone know why Topps used these aluminum proofs for a couple years, instead of the paper proofs they used in subsequent years?

[drc]

I've seen 1970s Topps proofs on mylar (clear plastic). I don't know why they used different materials.

[laughlinfan]

[dup]

[laughlinfan]

The mylar proofs make good sense, as you could stack them to see the full color result. The aluminum proofs just never made much sense to me. Anyone know the confirmed years that aluminum proofs were used? I think we have all seen a ton of them from 1962.

[steve B]

The aluminum ones are pieces of actual printing plates. Not really proofs. it's likely we see a bunch of them because someone saved a stack. Either from inside Topps, or at the recycling/scrap metal place they sent the plates to.

Steve B

[mmcgruff]

I wish I could describe it better for you guys. I have it kept in a pvc one pocket sheet along with the note from the seller. Like I said before, it is very flimsy, color is black or perhaps a charcoal color and along the bottom is grey.

[laughlinfan]

OK - I am probably showing my ignorance of the printing process, but if these were somehow used as printing plates, wouldn't the image be reversed? And if they were part of the actual printing process, I don't understand why some of them have a full to the edge picture, instead of showing the border/card design? Thanks for any info!

[steve B]

The process is a bit complicated, but in brief form...
The plate has areas that accept water or not
the plate is wet
Then oil based ink is rolled over it sticking only to the dry areas. Regular image
Then the plate prints to a rubber roller -reversed
Then the rubber roller prints to the paper.- regular

The plate will be slightly bigger than the object being printed. Small stuff is usually done in sheets, with sheet size depending on how many you need to print and what size press you've got. The shop I worked for had 3 sizes, one did roughly 8 1/2x 11, another I think 16x24, and a few that did 23x35.

Topps has/had huge presses, capable of printing two 132 card sheets at once. About 44 x 58. All the aluminum cards we see are cut down from larger plates. In the case of 1962s there's no border because the cards had the woodgrain border. Modern stuff often has no border as well. Some of the new "printing plate" cards aren't actually from plates- the real plate won't say "printing plate" anywhere in the card image

The aluminum is thin but can be very useful. When Aluminum prices are down shops will sometimes allow the plates to be taken for other uses. I used the little ones as dustpans when sweeping up. And took a few for a friend of mine to use to cover rust holes on his car. RELAX! we didn't print cards. I think his car was fixed with an MIT course catalog or somethinglike that.

I'f we'd printed cards I'd have the plates

Steve B

[laughlinfan]

Thanks for the explanation! I can now consider myself to be a bit more educated than when I woke up this morning!

Still wondering about the full to the edge pictures though - looks like for some of these no allocation was made for the border or card design. I pulled this pic from eBay to illustrate:

[steve B]

That's an interesting bit of plate! The one I have is a full card image border and all.

Topps did a lot of proofing that I find odd. The shop I worked for did nearly no proofing, the few I saw were essentially large photos taken directly from the mask (The full plate size negative used to make the plates - which is made from opaque paper or plastic with lots of smaller negatives taped to it. On some 81 fleer you can see the tape at the top or bottom of the picture)
But that was a job shop that didn't do much artwork. The stuff being done was usually supplied as finished original art by the customer.

Topps did paper proofs, acetate overlay proofs, cardboard proofs, and a whole lot of other stuff.

I'd guess this was a plate that printed the photos they chose either so they could see how it looked printed, or so they could design different borders on paper and view the pics through cutouts - or just paint the design directly onto the proof. Either way it's from early in the design process.

Steve B

[jbaskin]

I'm noticing that aluminum proof plates for cards appear only for the 1962 set. Is there something particular about that year or did the plates from other years not get saved?

[steve B]

They probably didn't get saved. The place I worked for recycled all their plates, and some were used as dustpans as they could get under the paper scraps. There was no need to save them as a new plate could always be made from the masks. When the Hunts tried to corner the silver market many of those got recycled too.

Sometimes they'd get used outside the shop. One guy used them to cover holes in his car. And the larger ones made a nice roof for a doghouse

Most of the 62s we see probably came from someones leftovers from some project at home, or were rescued by the recycling guy.

Steve B

[aelefson]

Hi-
In the early 1990s, there was an advertisement in SCD for the plates. I believe nearly a full set was advertised (the Mantle might have been sold before the ad came out). I purchased two checklists because they were the cheapest ones available (I think I paid 5.00 each plus shipping). I sold them several years ago. I do not remember which dealer had these for sale. If I remember correctly, they were either purchased from a former Topps employee or found in a warehouse.
Alan