1921 Baltimore Orioles Tip top Bread.

[danmckee]

Ok let me get this over with since my secret is soon to be out. This is one of my favorite uncataloged issues that I have kept secret for 40 years.

Now that 14 walked into a local Card shop in Baltimore and have been consigned to Huggins and Scott, I might as well spill the beans.

These were issued locally to Baltimore only and were inside a loaf of Tip top Bread.

Now you may ask yourself, how does Dan know this? Is he just guessing or did some old Indian elder tell him while sharing the peace pipe?

Well, Dan has a copy of the newspaper ad that was in a 1921 Baltimore Sun paper and it shows the premiums and a loaf of Tip Top Bread.

These are about the size of a Goudey Fine Pen and are made of similar paper stock.

They are very rare and the true Lefty Grove Rookie card is included in the set.
Or should I say pre-rookie since Baltimore was in the International League in 1921.

Ok now that the cat is out of the bag I would appreciate everyone feeling very sorry for me and returning all of my Alpha cards. Then I want everyone on the board to promise that they will not bid on any of these premiums.

Thanks for your cooperation!

and of course I am joking, good luck to everyone interested, it is a great local issue from the Baltimore area.

take care
Dan Mckee

[slidekellyslide]

I'd like to see that ad from the 1921 Baltimore Sun.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Ok let me get this over with since my secret is soon to be out. This is one of my favorite uncataloged issues that I have kept secret for 40 years.

Now that 14 walked into a local Card shop in Baltimore and have been consigned to Huggins and Scott, I might as well spill the beans.

These were issued locally to Baltimore only and were inside a loaf of Tip top Bread.

Now you may ask yourself, how does Dan know this? Is he just guessing or did some old Indian elder tell him while sharing the peace pipe?

Well, Dan has a copy of the newspaper ad that was in a 1921 Baltimore Sun paper and it shows the premiums and a loaf of Tip Top Bread.

These are about the size of a Goudey Fine Pen and are made of similar paper stock.

They are very rare and the true Lefty Grove Rookie card is included in the set.
Or should I say pre-rookie since Baltimore was in the International League in 1921.

Ok now that the cat is out of the bag I would appreciate everyone feeling very sorry for me and returning all of my Alpha cards. Then I want everyone on the board to promise that they will not bid on any of these premiums.

Thanks for your cooperation!

and of course I am joking, good luck to everyone interested, it is a great local issue from the Baltimore area.

take care
Dan Mckee

Dan,

According to Jeff P., this doesn't count unless you say "Dibs!"

[danmckee]

I am going to dig my copy of the ad out tonight for Huggins and Scott, I will try to post a scan of it here for you gents as well. If I remember correctly, it is a poor photo copy of the original Newspaper ad that another local collector actually owns.

[barrysloate]

Can we see what they look like?

[danmckee]

Surely, I will post a card with the ad tonight Barry. Send all donations to Dan Mckee at the Baltimore Mental institution.

[danmckee]

Jim, Jeff P. can have the dibs on this one. I call dibs on the 1987 Topps set newly discovered.

[Matt]

Fantastic Dan - thanks for the info!

[barrysloate]

Dan- I never agreed with the idea that by keeping a set secret it would make it more valuable. After all, the only way to ever reap the gains is to eventually publicize it...or are you bemoaning the fact that a small hoard was discovered? Either way, the example you have is still valuable.

I say publicize the SOB!

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Jim, Jeff P. can have the dibs on this one. I call dibs on the 1987 Topps set newly discovered.

no dibs for me, I'm content with my new black/white e93 Cobb, but thanks!

[bcbgcbrcb]

Hey, Dan:

Can you make the sample scan the Lefty Grove card? Please?

[danmckee]

I have about 14 examples Barry, and I can assure you that mine will not be public information. As I have kept the issue secret for all of these years.

What amazes me is that SGC slabbed them, not having any clue of what they are. They are labeled 1921 Baltimore Orioles.

All they have to do is pick the phone up and call me, I have offered my services to them several times. But Bill Huggins was the one that took the initiative of contacting me to find out what they were.

I love SGC, but I wish they would use me for what little I am worth. Dan.

[Orioles1954]

Everyone, scans of the new slab on the E93 Cobb (unaltered is mentioned on slab) and each card of the 1921 Orioles Tip Top find will be available on our website shortly. Thanks

James

[barrysloate]

See Dan, if it were me I would gladly share the checklist...but that's me. I understand you feel differently.

[danmckee]

I do see your side Barry, but I have been paying extra money for years for stuff cause I get beat up with "its uncataloged". This is a long going debate and I know I am in the minority on this board but I have several long time collectors that agree with me that are not on this board.

[danmckee]

Remember, I am sharing the ad piece with the board, Lyman for Oldcardboard and Huggins and Scott. I could keep that hush hush as well but it does bring validity to the issue.

[barrysloate]

If I found an uncatalogued set of cards I would write an article about them and share it with the hobby. I don't see how publicizing them hurts their value. If nobody has them but you they are going to be worth a fortune.

What could hurt their value, however, is another find, which is the case here.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by danmckee

I do see your side Barry, but I have been paying extra money for years for stuff cause I get beat up with "its uncataloged". This is a long going debate and I know I am in the minority on this board but I have several long time collectors that agree with me that are not on this board.

I understand why Dan does this. If he's still in the market to buy these going forward, publicizing their existence may run the prices up.

If he were in the market to sell, it would be understandable to handle it differently.

I have no problem with a collector handling it either way.

[danmckee]

Thank you Jim.

[Anthony S.]

Gettin' more and more curious as to what these cards actually look like...

[danmckee]

I have a scan of the ad

I will scan a few cards

then if someone can post them for me as I can't figure out this new board

that would be great

[danmckee]

I do not own Lefty Grove, sorry.

[Leon]

If you can put something on ebay this board is way easier...really. All you do to add a scan is go to the little box of words at the bottom of a post that say "manage attachments"...click on it....it will pull up a little box automatically and from there you can see where it says "browse"...that is where you browse for the scan you want to post..whether it's in your "my documents" folder, "my pictures" folder or elsewhere..when you see the one you want just click on it, it goes into the the little box and upload it......it's just that easy. It takes about 10 seconds.....or you can just send them to me at leonl@flash.net and I will do it for you .

[danmckee]

ok cool, I have been trying to add a picture to come up next to my name on posts and it always says invalid file or some crap like that.

I will try this, I didn't see the manage attachements below, sorry.

I am stressed and bummed cause I won't be able to win these cards in Huggins. I have offered my ad information and have told the auction house what they are.

I think I have helped the hobby a little.

I have also wrote articles in the past for VCBC, I liked that magazine better even though delivery was sporatic.

The size articles I write go into Lyman's news letters like the US Caramel wrapper where VCBC would have done a page for me.

I wrote an article on the 4 variations of the 1938 Goudey Lombardi low number. That was sharing.

I really am not as bad as Barry makes me out to be.

Dan

[Rich Klein]

But as they said at the end of Easy Rider (You Blew it). You have just discovered the down side of keeping hobby information secret. Now, sometimes doing that work, such as when Larry Fritsch gathered a couple of the Doyle errors but in 95 percent of the cases, publicity for an item is the winner for the seller.

I have discussed this on several occassions with several notable collectors/dealers during my Beckett days. There is no right or wrong answer to this. Instead, you took a reasonable risk and someone else now knows about those cards and they are not unique anymore. If you had the Grove; then perhaps I would have gotten the word out, but especially now that you have a major auction house in town, I'd make sure that anything you own is known by other hobbyists.

Regards
Rich

[danmckee]

scan attached?

[danmckee]

Oh I still have plenty of secrets Rich. And I will keep them until I sell, you can bet on it.

[danmckee]

Rich, I am not sure how I blew anything, I picked one of these off of ebay a few years ago for $10 when no one knew what it was. I have no intention of selling anytime soon so I don't see how I blew it to be honest.

But thanks for your thoughts

Dan

[leftygrove10]

Here's a scan of the Grove... However, I do not own this card...

[danmckee]

That card belongs to a local collector here, he had posted it on Brad's Lefty Grove thread on the old board and I ripped the collector's head off for posting it. Too funny.

[barrysloate]

Dan- I do see Jim V.B.'s point that if you are looking to acquire more, it might be best to keep things quiet. But even that could work both ways. Somebody who may want to sell some to you may feel he has unique and unknown cards, and might ask more than they merit.

But of course you are not a bad guy for keeping things secret. I only am suggesting that it may not necessarily be the best strategy.

[ctownboy]

Here is my two cents about uncataloqued cards especially unknown sets. It is best to at least get SOME information out into the public than keep quiet about them. My reasoning is this.

How many times, recently, have we heard about "finds" of Old Judge or T206 cards where an old person has died and a younger relative has found the cards? How many times did the younger person NOT know how valuable the cards were and either had to go to the internet and do research on them or, worse yet, sold them for little or nothing or threw them away (only to have somebody else hear about this and go searching through the garbage to find them again)?

Now imagine this happening with these 1921 Tip Top inserts.

With Old Judge and T206 cards, it is relatively easy to get onto the internet and do research about them. However, since the 1921 Tip Tops were only issued locally in Baltimore with bread, there weren't a lot made to begin with and probably very few remaining now. So, if an old person died and had some of these in a box in the attic or a scrapbook in the closet and a younger person found them and tried to do research on them, what would they find? Little to nothing.

What does that mean? It probably means the younger person thought they had no value and threw them out and NOBODY heard about this and went looking for them.

Now, if one or two of these cards had been talked about and listed in a price guide somewhere, like the Fans Cigarette cards, there would be at least SOME info out there which a person looking could find.

My guess is once these cards are auctioned off, somebody, somewhere will hear or read about it and bring THEIR cards out, like what happened with the Butter Cream Babe Ruth card that was auctioned off a few years ago. A guy read about the price the card sold for and realized he had one in a box at his parents house or something like that.

David

[danmckee]

Yes both of you have valid points. Thanks Barry, I knew you didn't hate me. If these bring Butter Cream Ruth money then you are correct, there will be more hitting the auction block immediately - mine.

[barrysloate]

Dan- you didn't really think I would hate you because you preferred some privacy? Now I would have to be a little nuts to do that (which I am anyway).

[ctownboy]

Continuing my thoughts on uncatalogued cards.

In the mid 1990's, I bought 16 Star Player Candy cards at a paper show for very little money (I missed out on a Ruth and Gehrig because I didn't know what these cards were. The dealer was asking more for those two because they were "big names" and I, as a poor college student, didn't have the money to make a mistake on them if they were fakes or reprints). Anyway, one of the cards was of Buddy Myer.

Up until I found the old board and listed my find, the Buddy Myer card was uncatalogued and the set of 1928 Star Player Candy cards SEEMED complete at 72. Which, when you think about it, IS a nice round number and would be EASY to print sheets of cards for. However, with Buddy Myer making the set total at least 73, it brings into question how many cards there really are for a COMPLETE set.

It also brings into question whether maybe the baseball and football cards were printed together and were considered one set when issued back in 1928.

David

[ctownboy]

Dan,

I am not saying they will bring Butter Cream Ruth money (though that would be great for you) I am just saying that maybe if 10 or 20 years ago you would have given some info about these cards to a publisher of a price guide then maybe some more would have come out of the woodwork and you could have bought them for little or no money (like you did with the one on eBay).

Now, it seems, if you want to add some to your collection, you are going to have to really pay for them.

Again, just my two cents and not putting you down for keeping them secret for so many years.

David

[paul]

Any educated guesses on how much the Grove will sell for?

Also, I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned this. But based on Dan's ad, this is not the same Tip Top bread company that issued the D322s.

[danmckee]

I appreciate your opinion David, no worries, everything you stated makes good sense.

I think the Groves will bring $10K to $15K

dan

[hugginsandscott]

the Grove(s) and the other 13 cards in a single lot in our upcoming auction are available for viewing on our website.

Go to: www.hugginsandscott.com

In the search by lot # box on the left side, enter "723" or "724" (without the quotation marks). The lot of 13 is lot #723 and the Grove is lot #724.

I hope this helps anyone who was looking for them (and thank you Danny, for all of your help).
Josh Wulkan
Vice President
Huggins and Scott Auctions

[Jay Wolt]

Pretty neat seeing the 13 in 1 scan

[Jay Wolt]

Here's the Grove that's being offered individually

[Leon]

As an auctioneer I understand why the grouping of them in one lot besides the Grove. As a collector are there about 11 people that would like to go in on the lot?

[bcbgcbrcb]

You've got to be kidding me, $9,500 already on the Lefty Grove in less than 24 hours since the auction opened!!!

[barrysloate]

The group of 13 went from $2000 to $8500 in ten minutes. Are they closing those two lots tonight?

[bcbgcbrcb]

Same thing happened with the '49 Leaf Newhouser Variation. It seems that all newly discovered/disclosed cards that are consigned to Huggins & Scott go crazy on their prices immediately, very interesting...........

Maybe the Just So Buck Ewing should have gone to them............

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The group of 13 went from $2000 to $8500 in ten minutes. Are they closing those two lots tonight?

I guess I will go back to being a minnow .

[barrysloate]

I almost thought about joining your group on the lot of 13...something tells me you guys aren't going to win it.

And my 1000th post

[benchod]

Those lots jumped so high so rapidly because someone has left a very high top all bid (Reserve?) on them and another bidder (or whale) wants to find out what it is.

[Rich Klein]

The other day at the lunch where I barely made it on time (posting instead of driving!) (Hi Leon!)

Anyway; the idea of breaking up this lot or doing it all individually could be done either way. Dan; these are going to go for silly money; so get your together and sell them all individually (since that is the opposite of what H&S has done)

Anyway; the seller (H&S); the consigner and the buyer will all do well with these cards

Regards
Rich

[Orioles1954]

I plead guilty as the fellow who helped decide to sell the group as one. Our consignor is thrilled. It was a "walk in" to a local Baltimore area card shop.

J-