Pre-War Autograph Opinion

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Posted By: T206Collector

Darn blackberry!

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Posted By: T206Collector

....That they had been working with the FBI to get a known forger. But you can read all about Spence's relationship with the FBI on his website--spenceloa.com or something akin. Just click on "meet our experts" and then read about Spence.

I am familiar with the HBO special. I would like to see something about PSA/DNA and JSA/BVG since those are the most respected signed card authenticators. But the fact that GAI did well bodes well for the much maligned Mayo Duffy, even if GAI is having its fair share of problems lately.


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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: micah

I just visited Spence's website. I see no mention of them assisting the FBI. Am I missing something? it wouldn't be the first time.

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Posted By: T206Collector

I can't be more clear from a blackberry:

-go to spenceloa.com
-click "meet our experts"
-read Spence's biography, including his assisting the IRS and FBI.

Two additional points:

-I no longer use JSA since they left SGC. I currently use PSA/DNA but await a new SGC alliance with someone respected.

-I am just trying to encourage people to talk to authenticators about what they do and how they do it.

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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Whether Spence actually helped the FBI or whether he actually helped the IRS is not relevant to this discussion.(I have worked on a criminal case with the Nassau County DA in NY, nailing Danny Dubcek whom some of you may know, and worked with the Dept of Consumer Affairs in NYC when they were investigating ebay which resulted in a number of crooked autograph sellers being removed, and have letters of commendation from both those agencies shown on my website).
What is relevant is that there were three autographs being offered for sale on ebay, all with Spence COA's. And the best people I know in the autograph hobby have deemed those autographs to be not authentic. There was also a large number of Net 54 collectors who questioned those autographs.
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
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We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: leon

I think one of the real questions with respect to this thread would be:

If you bought one of the autographs, with COA's shown in the first post of this thread, would you be upset?

To be devil's advocate I wonder if people ever signed in almost a completely different manner than normal? I know I have before.....regards

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Posted By: Richard Simon

To answer Leon's query, of course nobody signs the exact same way every time.
But the three autographs in question have so many flaws in them, so many differences between those autographs and known exemplars , that the fact that people don't sign the same way every time, does not come into play here.
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: T206Collector

If you read this thread, I was not suggesting Spence's relationship with law enforcement mattered to his authenticating practice. I was saying be careful if you try to pass forgeries by him intentional lest the FBI get wind of it. I'm not sure "I was conducting a forgery study" will pass muster in your defense.

But I get it that you have a great autograph authenticating practice. SGC is looking for someone to team up with. Have you contacted them about their opening?



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Visit http://www.t206collector.com for my blog, interviews, articles, card galleries and more!

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Posted By: Josh

Although these might not be the prettiest signatures in the world and I must admitt that I would probably shy away from them if they walked in my door, I have always liked dealing with Jimmy for many reasons, but maybe the biggest reason is the customer service he offers. When ever I have had a question pertaining to him liking or disliking his an autograph, he has explained his reasoning to me and in some ways educated me a little bit. I am sure everyone makes mistakes. I am sure I have and I know some of the names on this blog have. There have been times when I have run items by both Jimmy and Mike Gutierrez and their answers have never differed, showing consistency. Maybe there is some sort of correlation to a certain collection or time an place these were signed. Aren't most or all of them are being sold by one dealer so it could make sence that there might be reasoning. I may have even purchased some signatures that turned out to be fakes from names on this board in the past??????

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Posted By: JK

yes, all being sold by one dealer/collector who happens to have also purchased a bottle of vintage ink. Hmmmmmm.

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Posted By: Bob

My two cents...I study autographs as a hobby, as I do the men that proclaim items to be good or bad. Essentially give value to items with their opinions. I would honestly trust the opinions of the four men (Danny, Ron, Mike and Jim) and Richard over JSA or PSA/DNA for the simply reason that I know who looked at the signatures and have a great foundation in the business and all have had stints working for legit authenticating companies.

My issues with JSA and PSA/DNA (and I'm not even getting into the authenticating companies that pass everything) is that I have no idea who looks at the signatures and I'm concerned over the little time they take in authenticating larger collections.

As far as talking to authenticators, I'm sure they will admit that they never in fact make mistakes (or it's a one in a lifetime thing) and can probably take a passed misspelled signature and create a sweater from that yarn. Do you honestly think they would admit to making a mistake? How do you explain the Sal Bando instance? Or check out Autographalert.com for instances of sloppy authenticating by the two leaders in the Industry. I'm not anti-JSA or PSA/DNA either.

One more final point in regards to T206, of course the true test is to send ten Babe Ruth's to each company, but there are a couple problems here. First, it would have to be a blind test and done over a large period of time as to reduce suspicion. Second, you would have to find the right forger. Third, you would have to send it to ALL authenticating companies. Last, it would cost quite a bit to do this experiment. Probably $5,000. And what would it prove exactly? The masses wouldn't listen to the competition.

If anyone wants to give me $5,000, heck, I'll find the right forger and do all the work. Contact me.

Bob

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Posted By: Richard Simon

You would only have to contact and obtain the cooperation of the FBI. That is how HBO conducted their test. All the items HBO used were obtained from the FBI warehouse that stored all the forgeries from Operation Bullpen.
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I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

I always though the kid (Bennie the Jet) from the movie 'The Sandlot' did a pretty good job forging Babe Ruth's signature on that baseball. 

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Posted By: automann

edited and saved in a word document.....please email me if you want to post it with your full name and good email address. And email me privately too, then I will give this post back. Please don't post like this anonymously. Thanks and nothing personal. It's the rules...leon aka moderator/dictator