Whats the most you'll feel comfortable paying for an ungraded prewar card?

[priestc]

I'm looking to purchase a prewar card (leaning towards T206) of a "discount" hall of fame player (No Ty Cobb or Babe Ruth). I want to buy it ungraded. All the cards in my collection are ungraded. Obviously it's not a good idea to spend $3000 on a card not graded, but what about an $80 card? Is my assertion corect that if it's a "midrange" card, it is not likely to be fake? I just don't want to buy a fake card...

[Cozumeleno]

For me it would depend on the condition. If someone were selling me something purported to be a high-grade card, probably only a couple hundred dollars. There, I'd be more concerned about trimming, added color, etc.

If it was a low-grade card, I'd be more inclined to spend a little more if it was a type of card I'd handled before. In that case, I'd be mostly only concerned about authenticity/less about missing a significant flaw, and feel I could adequately determine that on cards I was familiar with. I've bought raw low-grade cards up to about $700.

[EvilKing00]

Price would depend on the player and condition. If u want a non graded card please make sure what your buying isnt fake, cause there r many fakes out there.

I have spent 40.00 on hof t205 players and i spent a few hundred on t205 players. Just depends. But if i was new to a set, i first try to learn it before dropping avfew hundred on a card that may b fake

[iwantitiwinit]

I'd never buy an ungraded card.

[Billy5858]

I buy T205 T206 graded only for Hoffers
and Southern Leaguers. With Commons I buy raw
from people that you can trust on here and
on EBay. You will get a feel for bad sellers and
funky looking cards after awhile. If I have any doubts (bad photo etc)
Bad reviews....low ratings.....I pass. There are some
well known bad sellers you will learn about who are on EBay
If you follow this blog

[x2drich2000]

I agree with the others to make sure what you are buying is not a fake. If you are buying on ebay, make sure the seller is reputable. As far as how much I would spend for a raw prewar card, it will depend on the player and set, but last week I bid over $725 for one card and lost Ironically, I would have more concern buying a raw 54 Aaron, 63 Rose or 69 Jackson at that price then some prewar cards.

DJ

[Exhibitman]

In person is a completely different situation. I will readily spend four figures on a card I can inspect. Mail order really depends on the seller. Someone I don't know on eBay is one thing but a person I know and trust is another story.

[Billy5858]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

I agree with the others to make sure what you are buying is not a fake. If you are buying on ebay, make sure the seller is reputable. As far as how much I would spend for a raw prewar card, it will depend on the player and set, but last week I bid over $725 for one card and lost Ironically, I would have more concern buying a raw 54 Aaron, 63 Rose or 69 Jackson at that price then some prewar cards.

DJ

+1 I agree Be extra careful with Postwar
Rookies and Cobb esp Green T206. Seems like
everyone and their mom know about these cards
nowadays. I wouldn't worry to much about
a second tier T206 Hoffer. BUT ya never know

[rhettyeakley]

It all depends on the source and my own knowledge base for me. If I am dealing with someone that I trust then I would have no qualms spending $10,000+ on cards and have done so on several occasions. On eBay from an unknown source is completely different.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

It all depends on the source and my own knowledge base for me. If I am dealing with someone that I trust then I would have no qualms spending $10,000+ on cards and have done so on several occasions. On eBay from an unknown source is completely different.

+1

Trust the seller, and KNOW what you are buying. If you don't trust yourself yet, you can always buy graded and crack out of the case. Its free

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

It all depends on the source and my own knowledge base for me. If I am dealing with someone that I trust then I would have no qualms spending $10,000+ on cards and have done so on several occasions. On eBay from an unknown source is completely different.

+1

[Billy5858]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

+1

Trust the seller, and KNOW what you are buying. If you don't trust yourself yet, you can always buy graded and crack out of the case. Its free

+1 There's that too...... crack and pack

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

+1

Trust the seller, and KNOW what you are buying. If you don't trust yourself yet, you can always buy graded and crack out of the case. Its free

There are dozens of dealers/collectors/sellers that I would buy raw cards from, most I would buy from without scans. However, it has been years since I added anyone new to that list.........and it has dwindled a bit, due to attrition.

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I'd never buy an ungraded card.

I would never or seldom buy a graded card. Guess we won't be chopping wood in each other's forest!

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

In person is a completely different situation. I will readily spend four figures on a card I can inspect. Mail order really depends on the seller. Someone I don't know on eBay is one thing but a person I know and trust is another story.

+1

[GasHouseGang]

It's funny, but back in the days of 200 page SCD issues and no Internet, you were at the mercy of the written description. Now I want scans and really need to trust the seller. I've bought some expensive raw cards from some of the folks on this board and never been disappointed.

[pclpads]

Zip. Too many card docs out there. If it has value, it is likely slabbed.

[philliesphan]

I once spent over $20,000-

But the person I bought the card from is one of the most truthworthy, best people in the hobby.

In fact, I might have been willing to pay *more* for the card given that it was ungraded.

Third party grading has its place in this hobby. And I would say that many of my pre-war cards are, in fact, graded. But there is something special about having a few close relationships in the hobby, and people who legitimately love the cards themselves and not the number on the tomb

m

[Leon]

I paid 26k for a Boston Garter once and it was raw. Bought it with a guarantee it would grade. It didn't and I returned it.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I'd never buy an ungraded card.

+1 - though I have bought some raw cards for $30-40.

I believe you have a good idea to stay away from better-known cards as those are the ones most likely to be forged.

You should do your homework before purchasing, though. Be familiar not only with the actual card, but the set to which it belongs.

Developing working relationships with good partners is vital.

I have always been satisfied with those I have dealt with on the BST and on the board in general.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

It all depends on the source and my own knowledge base for me. If I am dealing with someone that I trust then I would have no qualms spending $10,000+ on cards and have done so on several occasions. On eBay from an unknown source is completely different.

+1. My sentiments exactly.

[david_l]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

In person is a completely different situation. I will readily spend four figures on a card I can inspect. Mail order really depends on the seller. Someone I don't know on eBay is one thing but a person I know and trust is another story.

This. If you can't tell the difference between an authentic early 20th Century/late 19th Century card in person you're asking for trouble. It baffles me that people still put so much blind trust in these grading companies even though a quick web search will show the most egregious mistakes one can imagine from these organizations.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by pclpads

Zip. Too many card docs out there. If it has value, it is likely slabbed.

While you're likely more right than wrong, there is still a ton of amazing raw stuff out there, mostly in old-timer collections.

I would spend a couple hundred dollars on a raw eBay card with good scans and a solid return policy from an unknown to me, yet reputable, dealer (i.e. not Battlefield). I once ended up striking up a lengthy month long email conversation with an eBay seller and came to trust him in that time. I then paid him ~$3k for a nice partial Diamond Stars set that his uncle put together in the 30's which he hadn't planned on selling but offered to me unsolicited. It was my biggest raw purchase ever but felt 100% comfortable and have zero regrets. I also have a half dozen or so guys I trust enough to pay limitless amounts to for raw material.

[rhettyeakley]

Certain sets you can't be as picky with.

For example I collect Zeenut cards and there is just no possible way to only collect those if graded (other than maybe the 1911 set which is probably the most common and most graded). People just don't get these cards graded that often and when they do they are almost always lower grade so it ends up not worth it in the end.

The one thing about graded cards that really bugs me is the whole space issue. The holders are so large and cumbersome! I can fit my entire Zeenut collection of nearly 3,000 cards in a relatively small space but you get that many graded cards (especially SGC) and you are probably needing to add a wing onto the house!

[Iwantmorecards77]

I paid a little over $1,500 for a raw T213 from a reputable auctioneer. Big mistake and an expensive lesson learned.

[Exhibitman]

I've had some great raw purchases even from eBay sellers. I've also gotten my share with hairline creases or other damage not visible on the scan and not described. It is a crapshoot but often worthwhile if you assume that the card isn't really the grade listed and buy accordingly. Which is exactly how I used to shop in the pre-Internet days. Just assume from 1-2 grades lower than advertised. I also remember what a relief it was that the items were actually as advertised.

What I cannot understand are the people who buy by mail and pay higher prices for raw cards than for slabbed ones. At least with mainstream sets, the TPG holder makes it far more likely that you will get what you paid for. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a raw card that came in and was better than described.

Also echo Rhett's view on certain sets. If you want to collect Zeenuts, Exhibits, Kahn's, the various Bond Bread and related issues, and many other regionals and postcards you are going to have to buy raw cards.

[steve B]

If the scans are good ones, I'd be comfortable paying whatever is reasonable for an ungraded example in whatever grade it appears to be.

I'll add a few cautions.
I don't do Ebay by phone or tablet. There's no way to make the image -even a good scan- large enough to see the right details. Desktop with a fairly large monitor and if I need to I use the zoom feature built into the browser. For ebay items with the "click here for a larger picture" the browser zoom won't work on the larger picture, but will on the regular one in the listing (For IE, not sure about others)

Having an idea roughly what grade a card might get if it was graded helps a lot. For T206 I usually don't go much past the price of a VG card for a nice looking raw example.

Having a good eye for what trimming looks like helps a lot. Some weird edges are factory, but won't grade. Some straight edges are too "sharp" and I try to avoid those. I've gotten one or two card that were trimmed that I took a chance on. But kept them since they're actually really nice looking. And I didn't pay much more than I'd have probably had to pay if it was graded "A"

Overall, knowledge can solve a lot of problems. And cheapness can help avoid more. Not the sort of cheapness that makes someone belive they're getting a VG Goudey Ruth for $200, but the cheapness that assumes small issues with an otherwise nice looking card and bids accordingly. Yes, you'll miss out on some because others will risk more. But eventually you'll get a nice card for a reasonable price. And if you're lucky - less likely with HOFers than commons- you'll get a very nice example for a really good price.


Steve B

[Luke]

To me it pretty much comes down to how comfortable you are with the set you are buying. If you are all over the place with your want-list, I would probably just buy graded. But if you collect one or two sets for a few years, you will probably become comfortable enough to buy them raw from reputable dealers.

Sometimes a card will be found by a picker somewhere and if you want it, you have to buy it raw or someone else will and it will get tucked into a collection. I recently found and bought a really tough T207 that was high on my want-list raw and paid $750 for it via ebay. The seller had great pictures that showed the surface so you could see that there were not any surface bends or wrinkles and he had good feedback, so I felt pretty comfortable (and now it is in a SGC 55 holder).

[rainier2004]

I just bought this raw from BST...not a concern in the world on it. It does amaze me all the blind faith like someone else said. We use to educate ourselves on cards and the issues we collected. Get a ruler, do some reading, but a cheap issue and "play" with it. Isn't that all part of the fun? I love this hobby...

[BBB]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I'd never buy an ungraded card.

+1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[glynparson]

However much i have to spend.

[nat]

"How much would you be willing to pay?" isn't really a good question. Someone upthread was talking about spending 20k on a card. I wouldn't spend 20k on a card if it was authenticated by God Himself, just because I'm not about to spend that much money on a baseball card.

Much better questions are: is it ever safe to buy a raw card? And, how do you minimize your risks when doing so?

The answer to the first question is "yes". I buy raw all the time. Now, there are some cards that it would be foolish to buy raw: 52 Mantle, 33 Ruth, Frojoys, the stuff that gets counterfeited all the time. But there's nothing wrong with raw pre se.

As for minimizing your risks, it's mostly common sense stuff. Buy from reputable people. Preferably people you know, if not that, then people with lots of good feedback. If they have negs, read the negs to see what people were complaining about. If it's shipping time, big deal. If they've been caught selling counterfeits, well...
Be familiar with the set you're buying. Learn how to authenticate the cards yourself once you get them. And that part is fun; I always enjoy putting new acquisitions under the blacklight and the magnifier.

Spotting alterations is often harder than spotting counterfeits, and always a risk with raw cards. For my part, I don't care much. My cards are mostly in binders, and will never be graded. So if I can't tell that a card has been trimmed, if it has that fact will never make a difference to me.

The one factor where price of the card really is relevant is this: for any raw card, you should ask yourself why it's not graded. If it's a $20 card the answer is probably that it's not worth the grading fee. But if the card is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars, there is reason to be suspicious. It could all be kosher - maybe the card came straight from a collection like mine, kept raw in binders. Or maybe someone is trying to get away with something. (Knowing who you are buying from, at least by reputation, will help with this.)

[Leon]

It is all relative. I had a guarantee on the 20+k card and knew the guy (a board member) very well. Had it not had a touch up it would have been great. Otherwise, you have some great suggestions and people would do well to heed the advice.

Originally Posted by nat

"How much would you be willing to pay?" isn't really a good question. Someone upthread was talking about spending 20k on a card. I wouldn't spend 20k on a card if it was authenticated by God Himself, just because I'm not about to spend that much money on a baseball card.

Much better questions are: is it ever safe to buy a raw card? And, how do you minimize your risks when doing so?

The answer to the first question is "yes". I buy raw all the time. Now, there are some cards that it would be foolish to buy raw: 52 Mantle, 33 Ruth, Frojoys, the stuff that gets counterfeited all the time. But there's nothing wrong with raw pre se.

As for minimizing your risks, it's mostly common sense stuff. Buy from reputable people. Preferably people you know, if not that, then people with lots of good feedback. If they have negs, read the negs to see what people were complaining about. If it's shipping time, big deal. If they've been caught selling counterfeits, well...
Be familiar with the set you're buying. Learn how to authenticate the cards yourself once you get them. And that part is fun; I always enjoy putting new acquisitions under the blacklight and the magnifier.

Spotting alterations is often harder than spotting counterfeits, and always a risk with raw cards. For my part, I don't care much. My cards are mostly in binders, and will never be graded. So if I can't tell that a card has been trimmed, if it has that fact will never make a difference to me.

The one factor where price of the card really is relevant is this: for any raw card, you should ask yourself why it's not graded. If it's a $20 card the answer is probably that it's not worth the grading fee. But if the card is worth hundreds or thousands of dollars, there is reason to be suspicious. It could all be kosher - maybe the card came straight from a collection like mine, kept raw in binders. Or maybe someone is trying to get away with something. (Knowing who you are buying from, at least by reputation, will help with this.)

[Danny Smith]

It's all about the seller for me.