Old Judge variation question

[tiger8mush]

The first picture below shows the three different N172 poses of our good buddy Hank O'Day. I recently picked up a duplicate O'Day pose (355-3) as an upgrade only to realize its a slight variation.

Reading thru "Photgraphic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Co." it seems my latest pickup (if I'm understanding correctly) is the 1887 "0" series Type A version and the existing 355-3 is the 1889 rerelease? So is there also an 1887 Type B variation out there?

Please help me understand. Thanks!
Rob

[z28jd]

There is a B version of the hands at chest pose for him and it looks like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1887-1890-Ol...ht_1341wt_1270

[tiger8mush]

cool, thanks!

[Joe_G.]

Hello Rob,

All three poses can be found as both type "A" and "B" zero numbered cards. Pose 1 can also be found as a Gypsy Queen and has two variations of the type "B" zero number, one variation labeled as number "0164" (error) and one as number "0173" (correct). This completes 1887

In 1888, pose 3 is catalogued as an Fa (shown in book). There are also cabinets of poses 2 & 3.

In 1889, pose 3 was issued as an Fc card (your trimmed example). Pose two was again issued in cabinet form including a "New York" version (shown in book) while all other cards show him with Washington.

Neat player to collect.

[tiger8mush]

Hi Joe, thanks for the great info!

So if I understand this correctly - after rereading your post and the book - O'Day has 14 Goodwin & Co.'s available:
FOUR of pose 355-1:
1) N172 1887 Type A,
2) N172 1887 Type B (I have)
3) N175 Gypsy Queen type B 0164
4) N175 Gypsy Queen Type B 1073

FIVE of poses 355-2:
5) N172 1887 Type A
6) N172 1887 Type B
7) N172 1889 Fc (I have)
8) N173 1888 Cabinet
9) N173 1889 Cabinet (N173, New York team version)

FIVE of pose 355-3:
10) N172 1887 Type A (I have, most recent pickup)
11) N172 1887 Type B
12) N172 1888 Fa
13) N173 1888 Cabinet (N173)
14) N172 1889 Fc (I have, trimmed)

Question: For 1888 Fa and Fb & 1889 Fc (and the N173 and N175s), how is it known which poses don't exist for O'Day (other than seeing pose 3 pictured in the book)?

Thanks!!!!
Rob

[Joe_G.]

Hello Rob,

You are close, just a couple corrections required. The "0" numbered cards are all N172 (not N175). Between the three poses, there are 14 possible cards, you list an extra cabinet on pose 3 that isn't catalogued.

Our book was based on the Cartophilic listing which is the most comprehensive checklist available. We began with the Cartophilic listing, made several hundred updates, and used this for compiling player and pose count by year, various charts/stats, and the set's checklist. For Hank O'Day, the updated Cartophilic listing looks like this:

355-1 Bat at ready, looking at camera
a. O'Day, P. Washington (B-0173-A, Es)
b. O'Day, Pitcher, Washington (B-0164-B, B-0173-B)
355-2 Ball in R/hand head high
a. O'Day, P. Washington (B-0174-A, G)
b. O'Day, Pitcher, Washington (B-0174-B)
c. O'Day, P., Washingtons (Fc)
d. O'Day, P. New Yorks (G)
355-3 Pitch, hands at chest
a. O'Day, P. Washington (B-0175-A)
b. O'Day, Pitcher, Washington (B-0175-B)
c. O'Day, P., Washingtons (Fc)
d. H. O'Day, P. Washington (Fa)

"B-0XXX-A" & "B-0XXX-B" = 1887 N172 (type "A" & "B" leading "0" cards)
"Es" = Gypsy Queen/N175 (an 1887 issue)
Fa = 1888 N172 (one of two styles for 1888, other being Fb)
Fc = 1889 N172
G = Cabinet (Colored mount = 1888, Dogs Head = 1889, otherwise could be either 1888 or 1889 issue date. Team can sometimes help narrow issue date to specific year. O'Day with New York is certainly a late 1889 cabinet - purchased by NY from Washington on 7/26/1889.)

[tiger8mush]

Added a new (trimmed + skinned) one! Five total variations now.

So using your checklist, Joe, I believe this is up-to-date with those in bold that I have:

355-1 Bat at ready, looking at camera
a. O'Day, P. Washington ([B-0173-A, Es)
b. O'Day, Pitcher, Washington (B-0164-B, B-0173-B)

355-2 Ball in R/hand head high
a. O'Day, P. Washington (B-0174-A, G)
b. O'Day, Pitcher, Washington (B-0174-B)
c. O'Day, P., Washingtons (Fc)
d. O'Day, P. New Yorks (G)

355-3 Pitch, hands at chest
a. O'Day, P. Washington (B-0175-A)
b. O'Day, Pitcher, Washington (B-0175-B)
c. O'Day, P., Washingtons (Fc)
d. H. O'Day, P. Washington (Fa)

Thanks!
Rob

[z28jd]

Rob, I once tried to get all nine of the Jimmy Ryan variations(minus his three PL cards). For some reason I stopped at eight after I couldn't find the last one for about a year or so. Haven't looked in years for it, and just had to look up which one it was, but it was fun trying to find them and I did settle for a couple of real beaters. I think you've inspired me to look for the last one again. Don't like to hoard one player but it would be cool to have them all finally.

[tiger8mush]

cool, good luck John! Would be a neat accomplishment!

[tiger8mush]

Thanks to a trade w/a fellow net54'er (thanks Jay!), I added a sixth O'Day variation ...

So using Joe's checklist, this is up-to-date with those in bold that I have:

355-1 Bat at ready, looking at camera
a. O'Day, P. Washington ([B-0173-A, Es)
b. O'Day, Pitcher, Washington (B-0164-B, B-0173-B)

355-2 Ball in R/hand head high
a. O'Day, P. Washington (B-0174-A, G)
b. O'Day, Pitcher, Washington (B-0174-B)
c. O'Day, P., Washingtons (Fc)
d. O'Day, P. New Yorks (G)

355-3 Pitch, hands at chest
a. O'Day, P. Washington (B-0175-A)
b. O'Day, Pitcher, Washington (B-0175-B)
c. O'Day, P., Washingtons (Fc)
d. H. O'Day, P. Washington (Fa)

Thanks!
Rob