If I were SGC, I would BUY this fake and get it off the market!

[danmckee]

Just found the green T206 Cobb I have up on ebay and how depressing! There is a slight crease in it that I completely missed and I must not have rolled it out!

Bummer, I am not sure if that constitutes that I can't grade since I have 10,000+ positives on ebay but vintageshinystuffguy is right! There is a slight wrinkle in the card.

I have to change my listing and get a better picture up.

Ugh! thanks for the heads up though David.

Dan

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by jalex

Well, yeah, that was kind of my point. I have only 20ish T206s and they vary, which is why I was pretty confident about the Summers. I don't think there is a single t206 I own that measures exactly the same. I think the graders get a bit caught up in the stats, a t206 should be this or that, etc... instead of just looking at them for what they are. These things weren't laser cut by a computer, they vary wildly, which is why I like em'...

Jim

Yes you are right Jim! I do agree with your point and it is a very good point.

[Jaybird]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Just found the green T206 Cobb I have up on ebay and how depressing! There is a slight crease in it that I completely missed and I must not have rolled it out!

Bummer, I am not sure if that constitutes that I can't grade since I have 10,000+ positives on ebay but vintageshinystuffguy is right! There is a slight wrinkle in the card.

I have to change my listing and get a better picture up.

Ugh! thanks for the heads up though David.

Dan

Dan, I can normally tell when you've got your tongue firmly planted in cheek but you've lost me on this one. I, for one, have a strong stance on creases being rolled out of cards. Jim suggested earlier that the crease should be mentioned if you relist and you scoffed at him.

The idea of soaking the card in water is widely seen as permissible to remove grime and paper but I don't like the idea of creases being rolled out and then not disclosed to the future buyer.

Also, in another thread JManos mentions "what can I soak this in" suggesting that there is some chemical which might remove rust stains other than water?

I'm a bit disturbed lately with the amount of doctoring being openly discussed in threads. Certainly better to be openly discussed than underground but I'd rather it not be happening.

If you were joking about the crease rolling, pardon me, but maybe this is an opportunity to discuss whether people think crease rolling is acceptable.

I vote no.

[danmckee]

COBB listing has been updated!!

Since there is now a slight wrinkle, I raised the price.

Graded labels with a "10" on them are so rare and command a premium, this Cobb is probably the ONLY ONE in existence to have a wrinkle right in that exact spot so it has to be a one of a kind.

[danmckee]

Hi Jason, no I wasn't joking but yes I did not roll this one as you can clearly see in my updated picture on the listing. The crease is still there

I have been soaking and rolling creases for 35+ years and see no problem at all with it as I am a collector and it enhances the visual appearance in my binder.

I do understand that the hobby has changed and horribly for the worst in my opinion with all of the ridiculous grading and investors.

I do not use any chemicals, I use tap water only.

I can appreciate your stance and suggest you do not buy any cards out of my keeper collection that I have amassed over the years as I would have no idea remembering which ones were soaked or not.

Also, now that there are experts grading cards, be safe and just have them determine if a card has been soaked and rolled or not. If that practice bothered me, then I would only collect slabbed cards probably.

I think there was a thread on soaking and I can't remember if I participated or not. But if I did, I am sure I was in the minority as I always am on this board on any issue.

take care
Dan

[danmckee]

Jason, I think I should mention to be fair, that if I buy a card for resale that I do not take the time to soak and roll it or do anything for that matter.

My soaking is for me and for my collection. Though it will be sold eventually as the cards will out last me.

I thought I had soaked the Green Cobb as it was going to be my new keeper card. Wonka has been looking at buying my entire T206 binder with full set and all of the errors and printing freaks.

I have 4 fairly large T206 deals that I have purchased over the last few years and was going to start a new T206 set and this Cobb is the only green I would have after the sale. I actually got this Cobb from Wonka.

If you will see my listings, I try to mention creases and many of the cards I have sold had creases and were sold just like that. Many could have been soaked to enhance but weren't. And I always accept returns on raw cards and on most graded ones too.

Though I would not have a problem buying a card that was soaked and rolled, I do see your point and realize it may bother people.

Paperloss on back of a card bothers me and many auction houses only picture fronts. I got smoked on a T207 lot from Mastronet years ago from this. Though they did grade them as poor or fair to good, I expected full cards. They did offer me to return them so there was no problem with customer service.


As always, I appreciate your input. Even about my tongue and cheek

take care Jason
dan

[E93]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Jason, I think I should mention to be fair, that if I buy a card for resale that I do not take the time to soak and roll it or do anything for that matter.

My soaking is for me and for my collection. Though it will be sold eventually as the cards will out last me.

I thought I had soaked the Green Cobb as it was going to be my new keeper card. Wonka has been looking at buying my entire T206 binder with full set and all of the errors and printing freaks.

I have 4 fairly large T206 deals that I have purchased over the last few years and was going to start a new T206 set and this Cobb is the only green I would have after the sale. I actually got this Cobb from Wonka.

If you will see my listings, I try to mention creases and many of the cards I have sold had creases and were sold just like that. Many could have been soaked to enhance but weren't. And I always accept returns on raw cards and on most graded ones too.

Though I would not have a problem buying a card that was soaked and rolled, I do see your point and realize it may bother people.

Paperloss on back of a card bothers me and many auction houses only picture fronts. I got smoked on a T207 lot from Mastronet years ago from this. Though they did grade them as poor or fair to good, I expected full cards. They did offer me to return them so there was no problem with customer service.


As always, I appreciate your input. Even about my tongue and cheek

take care Jason
dan

Dan,
It was not your scan of the card that was the problem. It was your evaluation of the condition. This is one of the reasons 3rd party grading became so popular - because dealers consistently used to inflate the grades of their own cards and were less rigorous in identifying the flaws on their own. There is no small irony here that you consistently rail against 3rd party grading and how they do not know what they are doing, then make such a gross grading error yourself.

3rd party grading also became popular because there was widespread card doctoring. Ironing out creases is not a universally accepted practice in the hobby by a longshot! If you want to be a responsible seller in 2012 (not 1975), I believe there is a responsibility to disclose that sort of thing. Some people won't care, but some will. With numerous reports of ironed creases reappearing, it is the ethical thing to do. After all, that may be exactly what happened with your green Cobb that you thought had no creases because you ironed it out.

You have spoken often about how the grading companies would not grade cards that you knew came from original collections. Have you considered that maybe they noticed a crease having been ironed out?

It is easy to spout rhetoric about how the hobby has changed for the worse. It has also changed for the better in some ways. I started going to card shows in 1979 so I am hardly new to this hobby. But I get tired of people who have been around a while clinging to the past and trying to claim that everybody should do it the way they did 40 years ago and that old-timers have no responsibility to adapt to changing times.

I don't mean to single you out Dan. You may not remember me, but we have spoken several times at shows over the years and I like you and have a great deal of respect for your hobby knowledge. I just needed to get this off my chest.
Have a good day.
JimB

[alanu]

As a more casual collector and seller of cards, I like to have cards slabbed for my collection just for their protection and don't mind cards being slabbed as "authentic" and if and when I decide to sell them it simply makes them more easy to sell.

As for selling if nice scans are provided, buyers can decide on their own if they are under/over graded.

-Alan

[ChiefBenderForever]

The irony is uncanny

[4815162342]

+1 JimB