Get it Right!

[clydepepper]

Doggonit Harold! If you are going to compare Gregory Polanco to someone, at least get the name right! It Tony Oliva, not Olivo, you blockhead!

Sorry for the rant, guys...but he gets overlooked enough

[sycks22]

Oliva is a legend here in MN, great guy too

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by sycks22

Oliva is a legend here in MN, great guy too

I believe he is one of three Cubans who should be in the Hall -

along with Minnie Minoso and Luis Tiant

[the 'stache]

I for one don't see a comparison between Tony Oliva and Polanco. I think Tony was a better pure hitter, and I think Polanco is going to have some massive power, even more than Oliva had at his peak.

[clydepepper]

Well, that's Harold for you...most accurate thing he ever says is,

"...I'm sorry, but..."

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

I believe he is one of three Cubans who should be in the Hall -

along with Minnie Minoso and Luis Tiant

I think Tony Oliva is an absolute no brainer. When you consider the numbers he put up, and the era he played in, he should have been in a long time ago.

If you look at his prime, 1964 to 1971, his 162 game averages are outstanding:

.313 AVG, 98 runs, 200 hits, 39 doubles, 7 triples, 25 home runs, 99 RBI slash .360/.507/.867

He hit .300 in six of those seasons. He hit .289 in both 1967 and 1968. If you didn't look any deeper, you'd think he had a couple off seasons. Well, in 1967, he finished 8th in the American League in batting. In 1968, he finished third. Carl Yastrzemski was the only hitter in the AL to break .300.

Between 1964 and 1971, Tony Oliva hit .313, fourth best of all Major League hitters during that span. But the three men with higher batting averages during that period, Roberto Clemente (.334), Rico Carty (.322), and Matty Alou (.314) were all in the National League. If you look at only the American League between 1964 and 1971, Oliva's .313 mark is best. Only Rod Carew (.307) and Frank Robinson (.300) even hit .300 over that period. The fourth best hitter, Carl Yastrzemski, hit .293. The fifth best hitter in the American League over that span, Al Kaline, only hit .288.

You also have to consider the injuries that ended Oliva's career prematurely. Knee, leg and shoulder injuries slowed him, robbed him of his power, and caused him to miss large numbers of games after the 1971 season. He ended his career with 1,917 hits 220 home runs, 947 RBI and a .304 average. But those final numbers are not indicative of just how great a player he was in an era dominated by pitching.

I think the Veteran's Committee should take a second look at Minoso and Tiant both. Minoso was a star, a career .298 hitter with 1,963 hits, 1,136 runs, 186 home runs and 1,023 RBI. He won three Gold Gloves, and while he never won an MVP, he received MVP votes in eight different seasons, finishing 4th in the MVP vote four times. His .849 career OPS was outstanding. There were 232 players with 2,000 at bats between 1949 and 1964, the span of Minoso's career. Minoso had the 27th best OPS, tied with Billy Williams, who is in the Hall of Fame, and ahead of other stars/Hall of Famers such as Hank Sauer, Vada Pinson, Yogi Berra, Ken Boyer and Dick Stuart.

Tiant was a pretty darned good pitcher: 4 20 win seasons (229 wins in all), finished in the top 5 in the Cy Young twice, two seasons as a starter with a sub 2.00 ERA. 2,416 strikeouts. And he was 3-0 with a 2.86 ERA in the post season. I just don't know if he has enough to get in there. He led the American League in ERA twice, but never in wins or strikeouts. 3 time All Star. He should get another look, at least.

[bnorth]

Tony was a great player. He married a farm girl from a little town about 40 miles north west of me.