What do you think of this Heritage offering?

[shelly]

David, you forgot yourself The point I am trying to make is who within PSA and JSA decided that the ball was authentic. Not asking anymore than that.

[David Atkatz]

You may not be asking any more than that, but I am.

I, too, would like to know who within JSA and PSA decided the ball was genuine.

I would also like to know which "top of the hobby" experts decided it wasn't.

[shelly]

David, my understanding is that Nash, whether anyone likes him or not has just posted about the ball. I am not fighting with anyone on this site. I am just saying without knowing who the hell the person was that said this ball is real I would not buy it and even if you who thinks it is real you would not buy it either. You well know that what we see is not always what we get.

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by shelly

David, my understanding is that Nash whether anyone likes him or not has just posted about the ball. I am not fighting with anyone on this site. I am just saying without knowing who the hell the person was that said this ball is real I would not buy it and even if you think it is real you would not buy it either. You well know that what we see is not always what we get.

Nash hasn't posted about this ball, has he?

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by shelly

The point I am trying to make is who within PSA and JSA decided that the ball was authentic. Not asking anymore than that.

Shelly I think his name was Ray ....peace, out..
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[shelly]

:d:d:d:d

[shelly]

David the count is now at 4-1 Scot, Richard, Jim and myself. 4
David 1 .
.
I know you will not believe this but I hope you are correct. I would hate to see someone through away that kind of money. I personally can not think that ball is anything but bad.

[David Atkatz]

"Throw" away, Shelly. Not "through" away.

See? We all make mistakes.

[JimStinson]

Seriously and in all Fairness to the parties involved with regards to the authenticity of the ball , I don't think anyone including myself can say its a "slam dunk" Call one way or the other without actually physically examining it in person.

But as I stated in a previous post I would hope that on such a high dollar ticket as this that all due diligence was used with regards to provenance. And maybe or probably it was.

With ready access to census records, City Directories etc. the person or persons who made their determination, should have been able to back track almost to the source. Thats 90% of the work....then after thats complete and only after that is complete and CONCRETE...Examination of the actual item is obviously necessary but secondary
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[David Atkatz]

With some here, Jim, it's always a slam dunk.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Seriously and in all Fairness to the parties involved with regards to the authenticity of the ball , I don't think anyone including myself can say its a "slam dunk" Call one way or the other without actually physically examining it in person.

But as I stated in a previous post I would hope that on such a high dollar ticket as this that all due diligence was used with regards to provenance. And maybe or probably it was.

With ready access to census records, City Directories etc. the person or persons who made their determination, should have been able to back track almost to the source. Thats 90% of the work....then after thats complete and only after that is complete and CONCRETE...Examination of the actual item is obviously necessary but secondary
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

I hate to have to quote myself but this seems to have generated into a murky, heated, and controversial subject not to mention one of the longest threads I've ever seen on this board. I am not defending or attacking anyone. EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion. And anyone can spend their money how they like and where they like. Its cynical but at the end of the day maybe its not a case of how good a DEAL you got but how good a deal you THINK you got.
BUT ...I have said this before what an autograph LOOKS like is the first and ultimately last step in a series of steps, leading to a determination of authenticity. The very, very good forgers can fool ANYONE based on looks alone (Counterfeiters can draw twenty dollar bank notes FREEHAND) and they have found a very lucrative nitch in the field of autograph collecting because all of the parties involved WANT an expensive museum quality item to be real.
So looking at the autograph in question is the first step, some are so off base they immediately go to the trash heap , This ball is NOT one of those (as evidenced by this debate) So then comes the fun part Research , looking at subtle intangibles like labeling, format, etc. Then using the various "authentication secrets" that inevitably every good autograph collector/dealer/authenticator is going to learn over the course of his lifetime (The ones he won't share with anyone....THOSE secrets), then morph into Philip Marlowe and do the hard core detective work and back track to the source , If the trail goes COLD, that speaks volumnes and you PASS case closed.
If it dosen't you trudge on, until eventually you are able to prove your case to any critic with evidence a mile long. Done properly you'd make any critic look like a fool. Then finally the last step is LOOKING at the item again to confirm what research has already proven to you and then and only then , you make your determination. Which by now is no longer an "opinion" its a fact.
________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[shelly]

What did that mean

[David Atkatz]

Precisely what it says, Shelly. Some here don't believe they could ever get it wrong.

[Runscott]

David, what's wrong about being sure of yourself? Sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not. I have opinions about the Cy Young letter that Dan posted, but I'm not as confident as I am about this ball. I even compared this Yankees ball, signature for signature, with the signatures on the '27 ball that you now own, as well as with the one that you used to own. I did this because I'm trying to learn.

It was clear to me that your first ball, and this one, were signed by two different people, and neither of those two signed the ball that you currently own. To me, what I just stated was very obvious. But that's easy for me to say, since I'm not in the market for any of those three balls, so my opinion means absolutely nothing.