Old Judge Population question

bbcemporium · #1 06-07-2009, 04:30 PM

Hello, I typically post on the PSA boards since my main interests are in the post war cards, however have some questions on some Old Judge cards I recently acquired, and thought I might get better input on this board.

I acquired about 15 of these cards and sent them all in to get graded, I just got the 3 HOF grades back and it appears they are all 1/1 and the only variations ever graded by PSA. I have two questions:

1. Does SGC have a pop report I can check on these cards?

2. Also, I'm going to sell these cards when I get them all back. I typically sell through eBay, but wanted input from you guys if this was the best route to maximize on these cards. Here are the grades.

Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type Country
2 1 14392928 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1887 N172 OLD JUDGE KID NICHOLS PITCHING,R.H. FORWARD, P.OMAHA Card US
3 1 14392929 GOOD 2 1887 N172 OLD JUDGE SAM THOMPSON ARMS FOLDED,R.F. DETROITS Card US
4 1 14392930 VERY GOOD+ 3.5 1887 N172 OLD JUDGE JOHN McPHEE FIELDING,HEAD HIGH,CINCINNATTI Card US

Thanks in advance on your input

barrysloate · #2 06-07-2009, 04:49 PM

I sold a McPhee last year that was a PSA 5. Is yours a 1/1 because it's a different pose?

And sorry I don't have an answer to your question about SGC.

slidekellyslide · #3 06-07-2009, 04:49 PM

I can't answer your questions but would love to see scans of the cards. The Nichols and McPhee cards are tough Hall of Famers and you will get very good money for both of those cards. Also can you tell us what the other OJ's you got were...There are quite a few non-hall of famers in the set that are quite scarce.

bbcemporium · #4 06-07-2009, 04:55 PM

Barry,
It is a different pose I think. If you look at the PSA pop report, you can see what I'm referring to.

As for the other cards, I will definitely list them and their grades as soon as I hear from PSA. The other grades popped sooner as they were subbed under a higher (more expensive) tier.

I'd love to get some low pops on the commons as well. I did a lot of research on the HOF's, but not on the others.

Doug · #5 06-07-2009, 05:00 PM

I've been watching the Bid McPhee cards for several years now and the hands over head and fielding ground ball poses seem to be pop up more than the throwing or batting ones. The SGC population report lists 13 Bid McPhee cards, but since the pop reports don't differentiate poses, I can't really say if that's an actual reflection on the overall population or just what has come up for sale recently.

bbcemporium · #6 06-07-2009, 05:13 PM

Doug, it looks like the PSA pop report is showing different variations, maybe this is something they just started, or else I'm reading it incorrectly

Doug · #7 06-07-2009, 06:33 PM

It's possible that they started listing them recently. They list one Bid McPhee (batting looking at camera), one John McPhee (Hands High), and 7 John Mcphee cards with no designation.

Fred · #8 06-07-2009, 06:58 PM

I wouldn't count on the pop reports for any of the grading companies when it comes to OJs because they never characterized the players by pose in the past therefore if they started to do so now then nobody would know what the true "pose" population is because there wouldn't really be an accurate accounting of the different poses. Regardless of what you may submit for the "year" the card was made the grading companies have not (in the past, at least) published the true year the card was released because they never had the expertise to do so in the past. Doing so now would only confuse the data that they have. The grading companies not only didn't (don't) distinguish by pose they don't really have good grading criteria. It seems that the image quality isn't a criterial for grading. blah, blah, blah... ok, I'll shut up now...

Joe_G. · #9 06-07-2009, 09:24 PM

When it comes to Old Judges and grading, most prefer SGC. SGC has now graded over 5,000 Old Judges. SGC population on your 3 HOFers as follows:

HOFer / Qty Graded / Highest Grade
McPhee / 13 / SGC 84
Nichols / 16 / SGC 80 (2 at this level)
Thompson / 41 / SGC 86

It should be noted that a common HOFer can sometimes have tough variations. For example, an 1890 card of Thompson (Philadelphia - NL) can command a premium.

Edited to add we'd like to list of players you have submitted for grading. There are tougher "commons" that can command more than most HOFers.

bbcemporium · #10 06-07-2009, 10:45 PM

Here is a list of the commons:

Mike Slattery - Rear back to throw-ball in left
George Wood - Stooping for grounder-Phila.
Ted Larkin - Bat at 90, ball head high, look at camera
Henry Esterday - Col-hands together over head
Owen Patton - Catch, hands cupped chin high, L/foot off ground-Des Moines
Jay Faatz - Throw-Right arm back ball ear high
Jersey Bakley - Pitch, L/arm half concealing face-Clevelands
Ed Silch - Denver-catch-hands reach out head high
Ted Kennedy - P. Omaha's
Joe Miller
Cannonball Crane - Striking, bat nearly horizontal-New Yorks
Hub Collins - Sliding on stomach

I'll post grades when they pop

Thanks for all the input and advice thus far

bbcemporium · #11 06-08-2009, 07:35 PM

Here is a pic of the Miller card I have been asked about. Sorry for the poor photo quality, I can provide a better scan when the card gets back from grading. I was unable to find any sales history of this card on VCP, any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

slidekellyslide · #12 06-08-2009, 10:07 PM

That Miller pose appears to be a new find. You got some great Omaha cards in your lot. Any details on where you found these cards?

bbcemporium · #13 06-08-2009, 10:58 PM

slidekellyslide,
I came across these cards in New England on a recent buying tour. I found some other neat post-war stuff, but this is the only pre-war find. The highlight of the trip for me was an unopened '57 cello pack with the Mantle/Berra card showing on front.

bbcemporium · #14 06-08-2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

That Miller pose appears to be a new find. You got some great Omaha cards in your lot. Any details on where you found these cards?

Is there a good comprehensive source that shows the variations on OJ cards? I've been referencing VCP for the different variations, but don't know how comprehensive it is.

Fred · #15 06-08-2009, 11:48 PM

There's blood in the water now....

Put it on ebay and watch what happens.... don't give it away now....

slidekellyslide · #16 06-09-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbcemporium

Is there a good comprehensive source that shows the variations on OJ cards? I've been referencing VCP for the different variations, but don't know how comprehensive it is.

Yes! The Photographic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Company (1886-1890) by Jay Miller, Joe Gonsowski and Richard Masson.

http://www.californiasportscards.com...-p-324679.html

It's expensive, but well worth it. For the amount of money you stand to make on these cards I'd pick it up if I were you...it truly is an unbelievable book.

Fred · #17 06-09-2009, 10:27 AM

The book referenced above is under priced for the content. It is an incredible body of work. People may never truly understand the amount of effort that went into putting it together. It's arguably the best book that covers one series of cards. In my opinion it is the BEST book that covers one series of cards. The cool part is that if you don't like to read there are PLENTY of pictures, but it doesn't contain the Miller card that you happen to have...

THERE'S BLOOD IN THE WATER...