Goodwin Auction Has Started

[deadballpaul]

Some nice stuff as usual. Some of it's mine that I received emails
about recently.

http://www.goodwinandco.com/catalog.aspx

[Bicem]

sweet postcards Paul!

[bcbgcbrcb]

Some top quality items for sure in this one. At least a couple of the postcards seem to have very high starting bids though. Don't the auction houses usually go with somewhere around 25% - 30% of expected value as an opening bid? The opening bids for the Novelty Cutlery Cobb and especially the Speaker appear to be almost their full-value to begin with unless I am really out of touch with prices..........

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Some top quality items for sure in this one. At least a couple of the postcards seem to have very high starting bids though. Don't the auction houses usually go with somewhere around 25% - 30% of expected value as an opening bid? The opening bids for the Novelty Cutlery Cobb and especially the Speaker appear to be almost their full-value to begin with unless I am really out of touch with prices..........

I think you will see more and more higher opening prices as the economy is forcing it. Consignors have a major say in how the items they consign get sold. Auction houses are at their mercy and want to keep them happy.

That being said I would rather return something to a consignor than have them be thoroughly pissed that they got killed (realized price) on their item. All auction houses are different and this is my opinion only. TO those that will say..."then it's not an auction, it's a retail sale" I would say that is certainly your right to say that. I will stick to trying to help all of our consignors not get creamed.....And I realize this might not be a popular view but it is my view

[Orioles1954]

Let's put it this way, ain't no one getting a good deal in this auction.

[HRBAKER]

It is more like a retail sale and there is nothing wrong with that or protecting consignors.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Leon:

I agree with you 100% and believed that for years as a consignor myself but have always been told by the auction houses that it is in both mine and their best interests to start the bidding lower to attract more bidders. Based on this, I have almost always been unhappy with the starting price of my items and believe that the final sale price of many of my items fell short of expectations partly because of the low starting bid. If the starting bid was at the level that I had requested, like you said, I would either be happy with the result or get my item back.

Now that I am looking it as a bidder, the "new" higher opening bids are forcing me to pay almost a "sale price" for an item that I want just as an initial bid. It feels to me like I am coming out on the short end both ways and am not real pleased with this turn of events.

[deadballpaul]

An SGC20 Novelty Cutlery Cobb sold for about 5600.00 in REA this year, & an VG-EX graded example sold for over 7k in a Hunt auction last year or so. I think the opening bid in this auction was very reasonable.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think it's fine to do an auction this way, beats having hidden reserves, shill bidding, etc.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Leon:

I agree with you 100% and believed that for years as a consignor myself but have always been told by the auction houses that it is in both mine and their best interests to start the bidding lower to attract more bidders. Based on this, I have almost always been unhappy with the starting price of my items and believe that the final sale price of many of my items fell short of expectations partly because of the low starting bid. If the starting bid was at the level that I had requested, like you said, I would either be happy with the result or get my item back.

Now that I am looking it as a bidder, the "new" higher opening bids are forcing me to pay almost a "sale price" for an item that I want just as an initial bid. It feels to me like I am coming out on the short end both ways and am not real pleased with this turn of events.

You obviously consigned to the wrong auction houses . I absolutely understand your point though.

[bcbgcbrcb]

My main point is that when I wanted to apply this logic with my auction house consignments over the past few years, the auction houses basically all refused to start my lots at much above 25% - 30% of market value. Just when I have finally accepted that it is the way of doing business on that forum, now things seem to have changed to the consignors advantage when I am in more of a buying mode.

As I mentioned, the Speaker is a probably a better example than the Cobb.

[HRBAKER]

Disclaimer: I have never consigned to or operated an auction.

It may have to do with the quality/rarity or the volume of item(s) that are being consigned. If one consignor brought all of those Novelty PCs to the table I can see him or her being able to dictate what terms (within reason) that they will consign under, i.e., starting bids, reserves, seller's premium, etc.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Good point, Jeff

[bcbgcbrcb]

Here's a very good example of my point:

Last year I consigned a 1910 Minor League Team RPPC which pictured Joe McCarthy, a HOF'er and an extremely early image of him, in an SGC 10 holder. I paid somewhere around $450.00 when I bought it and was looking to have the auction house start the bidding in that $400 - $500 range. They did not do so and chose to start the bidding at $100.00. Final sale price was $100.

I see in this auction, two very nice minor league team RPPC's both with HOF'ers pictured in SGC 1.5 holders and starting bids of $500 on each. I guaranty you that by the end of this auction, the consignor will have gotten at least $500 for each postcard at a minimum.

That is where I have a problem with what the auction houses are telling me compared to how other consignors are being treated.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Here's a very good example of my point:

Last year I consigned a 1910 Minor League Team RPPC which pictured Joe McCarthy, a HOF'er and an extremely early image of him, in an SGC 10 holder. I paid somewhere around $450.00 when I bought it and was looking to have the auction house start the bidding in that $400 - $500 range. They did not do so and chose to start the bidding at $100.00. Final sale price was $100.

Which auction house? That definitely flew under the radar.

Looks like I may actually get 1 card I am after this yr???? Maybe this time

[deadballpaul]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Let's put it this way, ain't no one getting a good deal in this auction.

You work for Huggins and Scott. Is that correct?

[Matthew H]

The prices aren't that high. There wont be any steals on those PCs but they'll be sold. I think 2500 is a low reserve for the Cobb.

[calvindog]

The idea that most auctions are honest and fair went out with the Easter Bunny I'm afraid. If Goodwin wants to start his auctions with high starting numbers, so be it -- at least that part of the auction is transparent. In a fair auction, the market will dictate the value of the cards. If they're overpriced, we'll soon find out. As someone who collects PCs, however, I don't think the Novelty Cutlery's starting prices are too high at all.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Let's put it this way, ain't no one getting a good deal in this auction.

I'm afraid you're right, James. I think this is going to be a classic S.M. (Stupid Money) auction, as my friend Pete Calderon used to call it. There's going to be some major "pissing contests" on some items, I am afraid.

[joeadcock]

Nice stuff.

[bcbgcbrcb]

The NC Speaker is a $3,000 card with an opening bid of nearly $2,400 with the juice, that's 80% of the value. That's 3X what the going rates are normally for starting bids in an auction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

The NC Speaker is a $3,000 card with an opening bid of nearly $2,400 with the juice, that's 80% of the value. That's 3X what the going rates are normally for starting bids in an auction.

But Phil isn't it sort of an empty ritual to start the card multiples below where it clearly is going to end up such that no early or middle bids could possibly win it anyway? Isn't it cleaner just to start it at what would be a reasonable winning bid?

[calvindog]

Yes, Peter, these auctions are all about transparency!

[bobbyw8469]

As a consignor who has gotten creamed on his stuff, I can totally relate to the topic/disappointment of getting killed on lots....can I ask what auction house it was (did they recently bump their buying comission rate to 19%)?

[Orioles1954]

As a collector, whenever I see a lot with a huge opening bid (as dictated by the consignor) I immediately skip it over and don't even consider it. There's something to be said for a large pool of bidder's battling it out at the beginning. When approached by consignor's who demand huge opening bids, quite often it indicates a lack of confidence in generating interest for their items.

[rhettyeakley]

This is the way that Goodwin's auctions have been for a while (higher opening bids on the more thinly traded/selling sets), there isn't anything wrong with it as it is clear they are doing it at the request of their consignors. That being said, there are several cards in this auction that I could use (lower end items all of them) that aren't really worth the opening bids and if they do sell it's because someone like me needs it for a set, but in their defense, I normally wouldn't have paid that amount for it so they may end up getting more out of me in the long run.
-Rhett

[Koufax]

Hi,
I have a couple of cards for sale in Goodwin's current auction (not Novelty Cutlery). I let Bill set the opening bids and I believe they are very fair, well below what they will fetch, and intended to encourage folks to actively participate in the bidding. In scanning the other inventory of the current auction, the large bulk of opening bids are well within reason (at least that's my perception). I've found this to be true in previous Goodwin auctions as well, both as a bidder and consignor.

One can only assume that certain consignors do have leverage in terms of their ability to establish unreasonably high opening bids, and that is likely to occur across many, if not all of the auction houses. It's an unavoidable reality, especially as competition for consignment items grows. I'm not supporting or justifying this reality, just giving an honest opinion.

Nobody on the bidding side (including myself) favors auctions turning into retail sales channels, that's obvious. At this point, I don't see any evidence that Bill's auctions are in any way out of the mainstream, regardless of how the NC cards are perceived in the current auction.

My own 2 cents, not intended to raise hackles, but rather to add to the conversation.

[calvindog]

I'd just like to see auctions turn into .... real auctions.

[Koufax]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'd just like to see auctions turn into .... real auctions.

As would I ... just not holding my breath waiting for that day ...

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'd just like to see auctions turn into .... real auctions.

I am afraid that ship has long since sailed.