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#151
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Last edited by Johnny630; 04-18-2023 at 10:59 AM. |
#152
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#153
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I use PWCC to vault my cards and I use them probably 2-3 times a year to sell off cards for me so that I can buy other cards I want. I know this board is not a huge fan of them and some of the things they have done in the past, and thats fine. To debate the merits of them as company is not the point of the response. I wanted to respond only to provide some factual information based on what I am experiecing as a user of their platform.
PWCC loans out at 50% of the INSURED value on the cards you have within the vault. The value of my vault is mid six figures as of this post and that number updates almost daily based on current market sales. The insured value on at least my cards seems to historically low. As I said above, I sell typically 2 or 3 times a year and sell about 10-18K in cards at a time. What I have experienced is that the insured values on my cards tend to be 15-25% lower than the realized prices on those same cards via auctions. I hope this information provides some of you value. Edit to add: I have never taken a loan against cards or borrowed money from PWCC or anyone else for that matter, so I can not speak to repayment terms, etc. Last edited by MBMiller25; 04-18-2023 at 01:24 PM. |
#154
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Thanks Matt. It’s helpful to have real info rather than speculation, and as Troy pointed out, who knows how accurate that video is, if at all.
Personally, I think 50% of value is a decent LTV on more stable cards; not sure I would lend on that LTV with more modern/speculative stuff. I mean, I still simply do not understand why/how a Luka Doncic or a Justin Herbert rookie (even if it’s a numbered RPA or whatever) can be viewed as valuable as a m101-4/5 Ruth. |
#155
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a big concern for me would be death. not all of our family/wives are aware of the collection… so how hard would it be to retrieve it after.
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#156
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I take everything from Sports Card Radio with a grain of salt. Which is to say, I don't believe a damn word he ever says without actual evidence. He has repeatedly proven himself to be full of sh!t. This "anonymous" source is probably either some random troll from Blowhard or just himself making stuff up to get a rise.
I have first-hand experience with taking "loans" from PWCC (in my case, I wasn't borrowing money against cards in my vault, but rather taking an advance on cards I had already consigned for auction, but it's the same process). This is how it works. First, they appraise your cards and assign an insurance value to them. These values are always low. In some cases, extremely low (one of my cards was insured for $10k, but sold for $18k at auction the following week). If you have cards that you want to take a loan against, you have to put in a loan request for the amount you wish to receive. You are allowed to request up to 50% of the insured value for items in your vault, and up to 75% for cards that have already sold in one of their auctions, but for which you have not yet received payment (normally, it takes about 2 1/2 weeks to receive payment, but you can escalate some of those proceeds if approved - in my case, it was free of charge. I did not have to pay any fees or interest since my cards were already submitted to auction. However, there are fees if you just want to take a loan out on cards sitting in your vault, of course). After you submit your request, it then gets reviewed by a team of underwriters. They will typically send you a counteroffer for less than you've requested (so if you requested the full 50% LTV against the conservatively appraised cards in your vault, you will probably get countered for something like 35% instead. When it's all said and done, their actual exposure is probably somewhere around 25-30% of a card's actual market value when a loan is approved. Unless that's for a card that has already sold and awaiting payment, in which case they'll approve a higher amount as mentioned. As far as a "bank run on the vault" is concerned, all that would do is cause a shipping backlog at PWCC. Even if they went bankrupt, everyone would still get all of their cards back. Unless they've taken loans out against those cards of course, in which case, PWCC obviously reserves the right to auction those cards to recover any funds owed to them.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. Last edited by Snowman; 04-19-2023 at 05:04 PM. |
#157
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-19-2023 at 05:21 PM. |
#158
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#159
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#160
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#161
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It is with great self-respect that I can post that I have no idea if they are brothers or even what their names are.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#162
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Lolol. OK, we can be friends now
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#163
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If only I had known it was that easy. We could have done this long ago. Well better late than never, right?
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#164
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PSA buys sgc and beckett, “Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!” You know the hobby is in Chaos!
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
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The net result like any loan from a bank, using credit cards, or a vault is How you use it and pay it back.
IF done right (ie knowing you can pay it back fast), staying in your budget, it gets you the end result you want then good. But if you have no control, its beyond your budget, you use it wrong/waste it, or you take a long time to pay it back then you have the risks and consequences that comes with it. I prefer to avoid it but for some I am sure it worked well and for others it was a bad thing. But all businesses will find a way to make money and PWCC, Goldin etc just is just another Service they provide to make money
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Thanks all Jeff Kuhr https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/ Looking for 1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards 1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card 1921 Frederick Foto Ruth Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs 1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson 1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson 1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson 1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson Shoeless Joe Jackson Autograph |
#166
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#167
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Thanks!!
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#168
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He reluctantly gets kudos though for some of his card doctor nicknames.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#169
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Some of the stuff he says on his show in total seriousness is likely more hilarious than the card doctor nicknames.
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( h @ $ e A n + l e y |
#170
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SCR literally called people "card molesters" for wiping fingerprint smudges off of modern chrome cards.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. Last edited by Snowman; 04-28-2023 at 04:31 AM. |
#171
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I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I personally know multiple people who were recently hired at PWCC. So it seems odd if true.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#172
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If you use LinkedIn just search for Pwcc. There are a number of posts related to workers being laid off. I’ve seen numbers between 30-40. I tried to attach one screenshot.
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#173
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About a year ago I went to the PWCC page on linkedin and there were 40-50 employees listed on their business page. I checked this morning and there were (still) 100+ employees listed. Some of them working remotely (likely the reason for the zoom dismissal) and numerous hired in the past 8-10 months. There were a number of category specialists hired in the past year in areas such as comics, memorabilia, etc.. This hiring spree, IE too rapid of an expansion, correlates time wise with the $175 million fund infusion. Guess the money was burned through quicker than expected.. Last edited by savedfrommyspokes; 04-28-2023 at 07:02 AM. |
#174
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Any word from the leader of pwcc? He has been quite quiet for the last few years.
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#175
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Not all layoffs signal a struggling company. Many companies (multiple industries) hired rapidly in anticipation of growth that never manifested, and they are now laying off those people to right-size the company given that the growth came. Suppose PWCC was preparing for alternative revenue streams - NFTs, video games, shoes, etc. but the NFT market sucks, and video games have cooled a ton after a few big profile auctions (I don’t know about shoes). There is no reason to keep that dead-weight salary expense on the books, so you lay them off. That doesn’t mean their card auctions, market place, vault, etc are doing bad. It just means they don’t need the people they hired to serve collateral businesses that did not materialize.
I have no idea what’s going on at pwcc and if the above applies, or if they are having larger issues, etc. I am just pointing out that layoffs do not always mean a company is struggling. It may mean they have given up on some growth |
#176
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#178
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Layoffs coupled with the news of them getting stuck with defaulted loans were the collateral is worth 1/10 to 1/2 of what it was when the loan was written. Does not seem like good news to me. I don’t get why some are always so quick to defend some of the people they do, it mystifies me. As for sports card radio please show me all these times they’ve been wrong about the hobby? I think they sometimes are jerks about how they say stuff and there politics are absurd but they tend to be on top of the hobby and what’s going on. I must admit I was shocked at how good KG was on the show last night.
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#179
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#180
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Brent had a propensity for saying stupid things even though IMO he's very smart. If he's learned not to, that's a good move for him.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#181
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I am not sure if this is directed at my post, but if so, I am not defending PWCC. Rather, I am pointing out that layoffs don’t always mean the sky is falling. PWCC plays zero factor/role in my life/collection.
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#182
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Not defending PWCC here at all but I don't think there's been anything more than rumor on the significance of the defaults w/substandard collateral. I also agree w/Ryan's comments that layoffs don't exactly equal sky is falling sort of things. I'm sure there are instances where PWCC did lose money on the loans but I'd guess (and it's just that) there was something in the business model to accommodate for it. We'll see how it all shakes out. |
#183
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#184
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#185
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If by any chance there is a vault run, I hope all cards are present and accounted for, audited by an outside 3rd party. I only say this because of PWCC's less than stellar reputation. And if any cards that were used for loan collateral are missing.....Gulp!
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#186
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Certainly interesting. 100+ employees sure feels like a lot for the operation they're running. As a point of comparison, Rick Probstein says he has 35, and those are mostly minimum wage kids/young adults.
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#187
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Rick doesn't have the side businesses like a vault. He doesn't have to maintain his own platform. Etc.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 04-28-2023 at 08:34 PM. |
#188
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Ya, PWCC has to maintain a website and a large database as well. And they have a finance department and sales people. I wonder how their gross revenues compare though?
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If it's not perfectly centered, I probably don't want it. |
#190
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#191
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25 percent. Yikes! |
#192
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Should bode well for earnings. When is the conference call
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#193
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Huigens says PWCC is developing new robotics to handle an increased volume of submissions to its platform and is “incrementally introducing new features on our new digital marketplaces over the coming months, and we are preparing to release a robust financial services tool to the world.
__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#194
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That seems like a whole lot of ambitious plans. I guess we’ll see how they turn out.
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Trying to wrap up my master mays set, with just a few left: 1963 Post complete panel 1968 American Oil left side 1971 Bazooka numbered complete panel |
#195
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Say what you will about him, he always seems to have ideas.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#196
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Scammers usually do
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#197
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"One of the trading card market’s largest companies trimmed . . . " .
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Collector of all things Ripken, Yankees, 1958. Successful transactions with: 300dw123, autograf, bn2cardz, buymycards, CobbvLajoie1910, Daves_resale_shop, frankbmd, GoCubsGo32, GoldenAge50s, GrayGhost, Head928, Jayworld, jdl860, jgmp123, kamikidEFFL, larrie804, Leerob538, lharri3600, Lordstan, megalimey, Orioles1954, quinnsryche, Redleg25, rjackson44, Rob D., SAllen2556, scmavl, slantycouch, slipk1068, Smanzari, TCMA, thetruthisouthere, Wolfgang427, yanks12025, ZackS |
#198
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cut loose last week....smh
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Successful Transactions with Neal, RGold, Peter_Spaeth, jcc6252, Brian_Dwyer, Jay_Wolt, Clydewally, bauce, Prince_Hal, ncinin, gonzo, PiratesWS1979, ZiggerZagger, Anthony + Al |
#199
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Yeah that was rich lol.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
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