Signed T206 Warning - Big Jeff Pfeffer

[T206Collector]

Careful folks. Someone just bought this "autographed" T206 of "Big Jeff" Francis Xavier Pfeffer for $1,000. Only the signature is of E.J. Pfeffer -- who never played for the Cubs, and whose real name is not Francis. Francis died in 1954, and I have (still) never seen one of his cards autographed. E.J. died in 1972. Who knows how many times he signed one of Francis' cards!

The guy who signed the card:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...feffje01.shtml

The subject of the card:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...feffbi01.shtml


PSA/DNA really screwed this one up, and someone just spent $1,000 on this mistake. This is a fairly common mistake -- e.g., Larry Doyle signed Joe Doyle's T206 card; William Powell signed Jack Powell's T206 card. Unless you like having someone else's signature on a T206 card, these are more or less worthless. Maybe novelty items.

The auction was here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Francis...p2047675.l2557

[RCMcKenzie]

Wasn't me, but looks like something I might do. What do you think of the Goudey 4in1 in Heritage? That looks like an amazing card to me if it is legit. I have some signed cards and memorabilia, but the only ones I know are real is the Dwight Gooden ball that my Dad's brother had signed in person in spring training and the Mantle and Berra photos that my Mom got at a card show.

[scooter729]

Based on the seller's negative feedback, it looks like he sold this and had it returned by a different buyer earlier this month.

So the seller is already aware of the issue of this being signed by a different person, but is still trying to pass it off on someone.

Way to hide those buyer ID's for "our protection", eBay!

[thehoodedcoder]

why do you say they are worthless/novelty? i could understand if one is not from the t206 era...but in a doyle/doyle situation its sort of interesting given the whole doyle national error no?


Kevin

[thehoodedcoder]

from the one who wanted to purchase the card:


Kevin,

Thanks, I appreciate the heads up. We never completed the transaction though because the seller resold the card to someone else (for more money) after I bought it so PAYPAL just refunded my money.

Thanks
Shawn

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

why do you say they are worthless/novelty? i could understand if one is not from the t206 era...but in a doyle/doyle situation its sort of interesting given the whole doyle national error no?


Kevin

I know REA used that line when it sold that card in 2008, but I passed on that card when it was offered to me for a coupla hundred bucks, and I'd pass on it again today. I draw the line at players featured signing cards of themselves, unless they're Chief Meyers saying nice things about Hal Chase on Leon's card!

[ATP]

Great post Paul and research on this one.
Best,
Jeff

[T206Collector]

Thanks Jeff.

"What do you think of the Goudey 4in1 in Heritage?"

I think that card is pretty cool, but many many Goudey players lived well into the autographed card world and so it may not be as tough as one thinks. Each of these players lived until 77 (Hildebrand), 79 (Trosky), Averill (83) and Kamm (88). All four were Indians players. Perhaps one or more returned to Cleveland for a variety of old-timer/alumni functions. Hildebrand and Trosky look like they were signed with the same pen and may have been gotten together in the 1960s or 1970s. Kamm and Averill were probably picked up after those guys signed. But I'm just spit balling here...

Still, not easy to find four players on a card -- even if they were all 26 years old and the card was made in 2013!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I know REA used that line when it sold that card in 2008, but I passed on that card when it was offered to me for a coupla hundred bucks, and I'd pass on it again today. I draw the line at players featured signing cards of themselves, unless they're Chief Meyers saying nice things about Hal Chase on Leon's card!

thanks.....paid $125 from a board member, on ebay, around 11-12 yrs ago on ebay....I admit I tried to erase the signature before I posted it on the board to find out it was the real deal.....who would a thunk it? (the lightness on the signature is just glare)

[milkit1]

Regarding the 35 goudeys. When I started getting all the old cards signed in 1988 there were no 35s that had all four players still alive. Therefore I'd hold a premium on complete signed 35 goudeys. That one was in hunt a few months ago.

[lharri3600]

Question,
Which Pfeffer is this??

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by lharri3600

Question,
Which Pfeffer is this??

Looks like "E.J." to me -- not Francis Xavier. Would need both signatures to be sure. The "r" in Pfeffer is identical on the T206 and this cut.

edited to add: Google Jeff Pfeffer autograph, and a number of Edward J. Pfeffer autographs pop up. Still haven't seen a Francis Xavier Pfeffer autograph.

[Joem36]

Edward Joseph Pfeffer is the younger brother of Franics. He won 25 games for Brooklyn in 1916. Got the info from the T206 book. Hope this helps a little

[petecld]

For anyone who may be interested -

The signed T206 Marquard and the signed 1935 Goudey came to us from the same veteran hobbyist and are being offered at auction for the first time. He is just now consigning a couple of pieces. If I missed the link, please direct me.

Peter Calderon
Heritage Auctions

[Matt]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Thanks Jeff.

"What do you think of the Goudey 4in1 in Heritage?"

I think that card is pretty cool, but many many Goudey players lived well into the autographed card world and so it may not be as tough as one thinks. Each of these players lived until 77 (Hildebrand), 79 (Trosky), Averill (83) and Kamm (88). All four were Indians players. Perhaps one or more returned to Cleveland for a variety of old-timer/alumni functions. Hildebrand and Trosky look like they were signed with the same pen and may have been gotten together in the 1960s or 1970s. Kamm and Averill were probably picked up after those guys signed. But I'm just spit balling here...

Still, not easy to find four players on a card -- even if they were all 26 years old and the card was made in 2013!

https://premierauctionsonline.com/Lo...px?lotid=41519

[T206Collector]

Obviously not the same one, and thus, not quite as cool because obviously more than one collector had this idea....

[milkit1]

If I had the idea in 1988 I'm sure at least a couple peolle had the idea in 1978

[danmckee]

So let me get this straight, PSA screwed this one up and no one cares? Stick to the experts! Have your cards authenticated by the grading companies! Your cards are worthless unless they are graded!!!

Too Funny!

3rd party Grading is a joke and a cancer!

I have been saying it for years

And PSA is run by the biggest slime in the hobby - Joe Orlando

Dan Mckee

[nolemmings]

C'mon Dan. Don't make us read tea leaves here--tell us what you really feel!

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Obviously not the same one, and thus, not quite as cool because obviously more than one collector had this idea....

Notice how the Hildebrand signatures look different in these two examples. The one on the left in the slab looks more consistent with the examples found on Goudey Wide Pens , National Chicle cards etc. I'm not saying either is authentic or not. Autographs can be a very difficult thing to authenticate. Maybe Hildebrand was elderly or tired when he signed the card on the right.

To the card in question from the OP. It is always good to get the right name of the player on the card. Maybe the tpg is saying the signature is good and the card is real and didn't have enough space on the flip to explain the situation.

[HRBAKER]

"Willie/Oral/Earl and Hal," doesn't quite have the same ring as John, Paul, George and Ringo does it?

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Maybe the tpg is saying the signature is good and the card is real and didn't have enough space on the flip to explain the situation.

Nope--they said Francis Pfeffer authentic auto. It isn't.

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Nope--they said Francis Pfeffer authentic auto. It isn't.

I was trying to be somewhat ironic/humorous. How do we/they even know that EJ Pfeffer signed it. Why would he sign it? I don't wish to argue the merits or demerits of tpg's, especially auto tpg's. I still think both the 4in1's are cool, especially for under $250.

[Joem36]

My question on the T206 card is why would you sign your brother's card. I love my brother dearly, but I would never sign his baseball card.

Joe

[Jobu]

I thought I should bump this thread:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E-J-Jeff-Pfe...QAAOSw241YdWAh