T210 Joe Jackson on EBay!

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-T210-OLD-MILL-JOE-JACKSON-ROOKIE-CARD-PSA-2-GOOD_W0QQitemZ8721941321QQcategoryZ31718QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Thanks alot Hal,i was hoping no one saw that!


PS AT least humor me by answering my emails once in awhile

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Posted By: Bill Kasel

I just about shorted out my keyboard drooling at that card.....wow.

Anyone have a spare $100,000+ laying around that they don't need?

Bill

"The beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad, so I had one more for dessert"

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Posted By: David Vargha

I just bid $50,000. That was pretty fun. I didn't even get to remain high bidder for a second. Oh well.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: identify7

It's a PROOKIE.
Who cares?

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

It is indeed a PROOKIE...

but it sure is a PRETTY PROOKIE!

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I wonder if this is one of those situations where the seller has the reserve set at something crazy like $500,000...

and really has NO INTENTIONS of selling the card.

The "Private Bidder" thing can basically allow the owner of the card to HYPE his card and SHILL BID on it until the price reaches $450,000.

Then, he will still own it and he can "prove" to the World that his card was worth $450,000 on the "open market."

Heck, I may try that!!!!

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Posted By: Jay Miller

These types of auctions are exercises in futility. My guess is that the reserve is set at a level way above the worth of the card and bidding on it will serve only one of two purposes, either hit the reserve and end up paying a crazy price or setting a high market floor level for the card that the owner never has to sell. IMHO people who really want the card should only bid after the reserve is revealed if it proves to be a set at a legitimate level. Otherwise, they are just costing themselves more money when the card is reauctioned in the future.

Hal--looks like we are on the same wavelength

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Posted By: andy becker

jay and hal, i think you are right on. why use a private auction? unless schilling is expected, it makes no sense.

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Posted By: Robert

Hal,

I agree it is a real pretty card...in the description they where do Wagner comparisons and feel the value should be higher then the Honus, I have not seen any 2 sell in the past year and wondering if any of you have I know that a few 1's have sold in the 130,000 area. And did'nt a T210 Jackson (AUTH) go in the last REA auction for $92,8000 so giving the PSA 65% rule the card should go around in the area of $225,000. I did'nt use a calculator and did the numbers off the top of my head.

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Posted By: Marc S.

is sometimes done on really high dollar auctions to protect bidder's identities. Not saying I believe that that necessarily works - just that I think that's why that is often done.

Also - I don't believe anyone "should" do this - but I've often seen auctions like this play out with some idiot, new Ebay'er [read: experience collector] bid a ridiculous amount of money to discover what the reserve is, and then go back in and retract the bid with a note as to "entered wrong bid amount"

~ms

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I agree with Marc.

I think someone should "accidentally" enter the wrong bid amount of $1,000,000 and see what the reserve is!!!

By accident, of course.

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Posted By: Marc S.

Hal - I certainly wasn't endorsing or suggesting that anyone do such a thing!! Not at all!!!

I was just commenting that I've seen such things happen in the past on high-dollar reserve auctions.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I know!

To answer the earlier question:

There are TWO of these T210 Jackson cards graded HIGHER than the one for sale (SGC 60 and SGC 50)... so this particular card will NOT garner big-dollar bids from the people who are so caught up with "owning the BEST" of anything.

Also, the PSA "AUTHENTIC" card that sold for $120,000 or so was a very nice looking card that may or may NOT have been trimmed. PSA says it was and others think it was, but the buyer and others think it was not. The buyer himself said that he was paying $120,000 ONLY because he did NOT think it was trimmed.

Thus, there was NO "DISCOUNT" on that T210 Jackson that sold for $120,000... and it's condition was indeed sharper than the one currently for sale on Ebay.

I think a FAIR PRICE for the one on EBAY is about $100,000 in today's market.

BUT...

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is a "bogus" auction and that the Reserve is set WAY higher than that amount.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

To PROVE my point...

I went and bid $100,000 on the card...

and had someone else bid $99,900 on it so that my bid would be as high as possible.

If the reserve had been "reasonable" at $100,000... then I would have gladly taken the card.

As you can see...

this reserve is probably WAY TOO HIGH.

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Posted By: david

i agree with jay and others that this auction is not 'legit' in that the seller actually does not intend to sell the card. the reserve price is probably well over 500k. certainly the card is worth over 100k but based on seller hype not worth what they want it to be.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I just got an e-mail from someone I trust who said that he was watching the item at the time when someone accidentally bid way too much...

and that he saw the reserve in that time:

$224,000.

If someone wants to pay that much... they CAN OWN IT!!!

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

BRESDO:

You should be renamed: "The Amazing Kreskin"

Your "off the cuff" estimate is EXACTLY the lowest price that can buy this card!!!

SO... are you the seller?

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Posted By: barrysloate

The buyer of the "authentic" Jackson, and we know it is Corey since he came on board, actually paid $92,000, not $120,000, if that makes a difference in the discussion.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

That was my recollection as well, Barry. I didn't think it went over $100k.

I stand by my earlier statement:

$100,000 would be a FAIR price for this card.



$225,000 would not.

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Posted By: Wesley

A few years ago, this same seller sold a PSA 2 T206 Plank, PSA 1 Cobb w/ Cobb back and PSA 4 M101-5 Ruth. They were on ebay at the same time and they all sold.

Not the same kind of mula, but this guy does sell some great cards.

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Posted By: Elliot

I second what Wesley said, and all my dealings with Ed have been top-notch. Also, i believe that people on this board have used private auctions when trying to sell a high dollar card on ebay.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Wouldn't this "trimming" make the PSA 5 T206 Wagner card the MOST VALUABLE of all the Wagners??

Do we know who owns it??

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Posted By: Robert

Hal,

It's not me selling the card but I have been working on my site vintagecardprice.com and been obtainiong data for some time now and based on that I came up with the price of $225,000.

With in the next few months vintagecardprice.com will be up and running and you will be able to search through almost every set for results on all graded cards (AUTH to 10) by GAI, PSA and SGC only. The realized price from every major auction house as well as EBAY will be in the database. We are working on a way that you will be able to sort the information by grading company as well as a few other features. Add it will have a search function so that if you want to know every card that a player is on it will show up in your query. There will be 2 membership types, monthly $9.95 and yearly $99.95 and the site is automatically updated everyday. I hope that everyone here will join because I am commiting a lot of time and resources to getting this project off the ground. And I believe it will be a tool for everyone to use. We will be launching with almost every pre-war set that will have scans of every card when you search that card (We have a large number of the pixs but it will take time to get the over 14,000 cards we will have in the database). Shortly after by next sumer we will add the post war through 1959. If there is a demand for more and the membership is strong we will complete the rest to date.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I have better cards that have been slammed down to fair or poor. Not that I'd refuse it if offered to me for free

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Don't any of you guys WANT the card at 100K? I sure would, if had the dough...

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Posted By: kimithefin

Would a colorable possibility be that indeed this person does not even own the card and simply has a scan? If they are simply testing the market, determining current value, or using this auction for means other than really selling the item in question, it would not be so far fetched to think they do not own this piece. This is not to say they do or do not, this is simply a question.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

well, I'd go a little higher.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

But would you go $125,000 higher?

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Posted By: nbrazil

i bet $14 on it....


that didnt get me any where.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Here is the one Corey bought for $92,000 if you include the juice:




Here is the one for sale on EBay:

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

While it does appear that Corey's card is not as tall or wide as the one PSA graded... it sure is nicer looking!

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Posted By: Jay Miller

No comparison. I'll take Corey's every day of the week.

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Posted By: nbrazil

is the first jackson in a baggy? Or is that just the scanner?

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Posted By: JimB

I was the one who bought the Cobb/Cobb back from BigEd off Ebay a few years. I have since sold that one, but my dealings with him were smoothe and fine. He may be hoping to get a lot for this card and have a high reserve, but my guess is the anonymity is because a lot of people who buy cards that cost that much prefer anonymity.
JimB

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Posted By: identify7

The question is not "what is the reserve".

The question is "what is the value".

IMHO the value of the card currently offered is less than 50% greater than Corey's card (which may or may not be trimmed + is in a higher state of preservation, otherwise).

Therefore, I conclude that the value of this Jackson is $137,999.

This sounds high. And this is high. As far as Im concerned: Jackson, Wagner and Mantle are riding a wave to nowhere, and Jackson will step off first.


Edited to correct spelling.

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Posted By: James Feagin

Not to be a killjoy, but perhaps I should get out of cards. This doesn't do much for me.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I've dealt with Big Ed a number times with baseball cards a number of years back, and my personal experience was always positive. I ordinarilly get hives from private eBay auctions. However with an item as exensive as this and a known reputable seller, it's a different situation. I'm certain many bidders would not want others to know they can spend $100,000+ on an item.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Barry:

Wouldn't it behoove Corey for him to bid $220,000 on this card (below the reserve)...

and then have someone else bid $219,000 on the card...

in order to make it "appear" to the World that the card might really be worth that much??

Unfortunately, with a PRIVATE auction... these things can happen...

so the results really need to be "written off" unless the card is won by someone who later identifies himself as a knowledgeable collector.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Price guides are generally based on realized sales.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Now that the reserve has been revealed it's really not so much of an auction as it would be an outright sale.

In any case, it's a desireable card.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Just a note for Bresdo and his price guide:

UNMET reserves can NOT serve as "price" comparables for this very reason.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Hal--You go girl!

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Unrealized sales in a reputable auction aren't useless to a price guide, but few will take seriously a final bid one penny below the stated reserve.

Just one potential problem for eBay pricing as a price guide is you don't know which sales were finalized ($$ paid). A $5,000 winning bid has no meaning if the winner never paid ... I also hope that an economist doesn't calculate the value of a 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth by calculating the eBay sales of auctions titled "1933 Goudey Babe Ruth," as more than half of these are reprints and fakes! ... "After doing an exhaustive study of 7,544 sales on eBay and Yahoo! over the past 5 years, a Harvard mathamtician and his team have calculated that the market value of a T206 Honus Wagner is $37."

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Posted By: Andy Baran

I don't understand why everyone is so bent out of shape with the high reserve. So what if you don't think the card is "worth" that much. Obviously, that card is worth that much to the current owner. He owns the card, and has every right to put whatever reserve he wants on it. (He also has the right to keep his reserve hidden, and now has every right to cancel the auction if he desires.) He is basically saying that for anything less than that amount, it is not "worth" it to him to sell it. I can tell you that for me to consider selling any of the remaining cards in my collection, someone would have to offer me far more than what most people would think the card is worth. I'm just not willing to part with them at current market value, and it appears that the owner of the Jackson feels the same what about that card. There is nothing wrong with that. No one is being forced to spend that kind of money on the card, but maybe someone is willing.

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Posted By: Marc S.

Mine are stored in a box in storage. I would be interested to know what the Jackson sold for back then...

Marc

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Posted By: JimB

Andy,
Thank you for adding a little practical sense to this discussion.
JimB

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Andy:

Will you be saying the same thing if the card does not sell now (because of the high reserve) and then shows up in the near future in one of the big auctions with NO reserve?

Would that convince you that it was only a scam?

NOTE: I am NOT saying that this is DEFINITELY what BigEd is doing... but I am saying that it is certainly a possibility ANYTIME you see a "Private Auction" with a super high reserve.

Time will tell. That's all.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

And by the way...

EBay CHARGES the seller 1% of his RESERVE price to list his item...

so BigEd paid $2,250 just to LIST this card!!!

That seems like a LOT of money to spend on the "slim chance" that someone might meet the Reserve and buy the card for 3 times more than the last one sold for in REA a few months ago.

Call me crazy...

but I think this was $2,250 spent on an ADVERTISING campaign for the card.



Andy:

Your example is different.

If I call YOU and I make the first move... then sure, you have the right to say "My cards are not for sale, but I will sell them for a crazy price." Heck, you do it to me everytime I try.

In fact, I will try again right now:

"How much will you sell me your SGC 20 E107 Wagner for? There is an SGC 40 coming on the market in a month, but I am willing to pay good money for yours right now."

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Posted By: Paul

If the bids received are legit, I think this auction shows that the "authentic" card DID take a substantial hit because of the authentic grade. At $92K, I assumed the bidders were treating that card as a PSA4 or so, based on their own expertise and conclusion that it wasn't trimmed. But the current auction shows that even a PSA 2 will sell for more.

For what it's worth, I have purchased a decent number of vintage cards from the seller and have never had any problems. I believe he is a legit vintage card dealer, but I obviously have no information about this specific auction. I just regret not buying Steve Verkman's T210 Jackson a couple of years ago for 5K.