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  #1  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:00 PM
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Default 20 retraction high bidder PWCC

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-Topps-H...wAAOSwmJdZhMtR

Hopefully they will fix this.
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  #2  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:04 PM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Only 20.....

The runner-up bidder with 2,670 Feedback, is having a tough time getting over the "hump."
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  #3  
Old 08-12-2017, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
There you go again with your agenda beating up on Brentsy. Wait until David James Attorney At Law hears about this!
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  #4  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
I'm sure they will be all over it, Peter.
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  #5  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:47 PM
CMIZ5290 CMIZ5290 is offline
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I'm sure they will be all over it, Peter.
Exactly this! This has been going on since King Kong was a monkey.....
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  #6  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
I'm sure they will be all over it, Peter.
I presume with 2 days left they will see the thread or one of their fan club will call it to their attention.
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  #7  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:07 PM
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What makes you think that the auction house is not aware? It is possible that they know and condone.

Last edited by cammb; 08-12-2017 at 08:07 PM.
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  #8  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:09 PM
vintagetoppsguy vintagetoppsguy is offline
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There you go again with your agenda beating up on Brentsy. Wait until David James Attorney At Law hears about this!
Good to see that all is normal on a Saturday night and that you're being your usual douchebag self, Greg.

For the record, I have never defended bid retractions.
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  #9  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:09 PM
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What makes you think that the auction house is not aware? It is possible that they know and condone.
Hopefully not.
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  #10  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Sadly, no, Brentsy won't do a thing about it.....

Last edited by gnaz01; 08-12-2017 at 08:14 PM.
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  #11  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Good to see that all is normal on a Saturday night and that you're being your usual douchebag self, Greg.

For the record, I have never defended bid retractions.
Is there anyone with thinner skin than you on the board? For once, try not to be so predictable.
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  #12  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:21 PM
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Is there anyone with thinner skin than you on the board? For once, try not to be so predictable.
Not thin skinned, Greg, I just don't like being called out in a thread on which I didn't even post. Do you have some issue with me that you would call me out specifically by name? You obviously have an issue with PWCC and their bid retractions. I don't like bid retractions either because everyone knows that it's just a cover up for shill bidding. But the difference between you and me is that I have every right to voice my opinion while you have absolutely no right...

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Originally Posted by botn View Post
Over, at least, the last 4 years I was advised and urged to not make a post like this so this comes as a great relief to me that I can finally write this. There is nothing noble in my decision to do this since my name is out there as a consignor with Mastro and associated with items which were identified as shilled but I feel I owe an explanation to those who were harmed and to those who call me a hobby friend. I made a mess so I have to clean it up.
During roughly 2005 to 2009 we consigned a few hundred thousand dollars worth of material to Mastro. Our consignments generally consisted of our more expensive inventory since that type of material did not seem to do as well on eBay—our only other outlet for retail sales AND auction houses like Mastro seemed to be setting record prices. At some point after less than stellar auction results and being completely incensed and frustrated, we decided to protect items rather than allowing them to sell below what we felt were fair values.

At no point did we ever conspire with anyone at Mastro on those bids. We never knew who was bidding on our items or what their bids were. I have no recollection which of our consignments I was the one to place a bid and which my former business partner bid on but since he is no longer here I have to take responsibility for our actions. Sometimes a top all would be placed and other times we would bid incrementally so as to not open ourselves up to being shill bid, as ironic as that might sound. In each instance our bids were made with the intent to buy back the item and a willingness to pay the buyer’s premium, as we did each time we bought back a lot. It did not feel right doing this but I never thought of it as being illegal.

Not to make excuses but the practice described above, of protecting a lot, was very prevalent at that time even among collectors. I will not call out anyone by name but some are current posters here who would frequently ask me to bid up their auction listings on eBay. I now understand why the government considers this shill bidding however our intent with Mastro was never to defraud anyone but to simply protect what was ours. Obviously we should not have consigned if we were not willing to accept that our items might fall far short of our expectations. I cannot take back what I was a part of but I can be a better person going forward. I am sorry to those I harmed and to those who I have disappointed.

As a side note the list may not be as accurate as the government might think. There are a couple errors that I know of in regards to items identified as my consignments according to my records.

Greg
It's always funny to me how those with shady pasts are the first to point fingers at others. I like the part though when you try to justify it by saying everyone was doing it at the time. Classy.

Now, do you want to STFU like you should have done originally or do you want to keep going?
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  #13  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Not thin skinned, Greg, I just don't like being called out in a thread on which I didn't even post. Do you have some issue with me that you would call me out specifically by name? You obviously have an issue with PWCC and their bid retractions. I don't like bid retractions either because everyone knows that it's just a cover up for shill bidding. But the difference between you and me is that I have every right to voice my opinion while you have absolutely no right...

It's always funny to me how those with shady pasts are the first to point fingers at others. I like the part though when you try to justify it by saying everyone was doing it at the time. Classy.

Now, do you want to STFU like you should have done originally or do you want to keep going?
I did not call you out. I made a joke. I did not know you were off limits but given your borderline personality disorder I probably should have let you be.
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  #14  
Old 08-13-2017, 09:32 AM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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To be clear it is NOT illegal for an owner to bid on his own items in most jurisdictions that I am aware of. That being said, we have a rule against it as we feel it is unethical, especially in an absolute auction.
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  #15  
Old 08-13-2017, 10:28 PM
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Brent Huigens Brent Huigens is offline
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This user ID has been placed on our block list. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Betsy Huigens
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  #16  
Old 08-14-2017, 03:54 AM
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This user ID has been placed on our block list. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions
Yet, as of 5:54 am EST, it still shows him as the highest bidder? What am I missing?
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  #17  
Old 08-14-2017, 04:21 AM
thetruthisoutthere thetruthisoutthere is offline
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Yet, as of 5:54 am EST, it still shows him as the highest bidder? What am I missing?
Although the bidder has been placed on their "Block"list, that does not "Block" them from the present auction.

But, they can cancel that bidder's bid.
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  #18  
Old 08-14-2017, 04:33 AM
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But, they can cancel that bidder's bid.
That won't happen either, sadly
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  #19  
Old 08-14-2017, 07:27 AM
1952boyntoncollector 1952boyntoncollector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards View Post
To be clear it is NOT illegal for an owner to bid on his own items in most jurisdictions that I am aware of. That being said, we have a rule against it as we feel it is unethical, especially in an absolute auction.
I actually dont have a problem if someone is going to eat the BP......on a 10,000 card..thats 2,000 for example...they really going to try to shill it again? The problem is that very few actually 'eat' the card.. They probably call the consignor and say if they want to sell their 100,000s of value of cards in the future they will not make them eat the card.
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  #20  
Old 08-14-2017, 09:09 AM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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I agree and not sure on the legality of shilling AND retracting. Individually both activities are legal, but combined it heads into an area I don't feel competent to call.
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  #21  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:31 AM
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It would have been nice to see the bids cancelled, but what can you do.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-14-2017 at 01:32 PM.
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  #22  
Old 08-14-2017, 04:42 PM
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So Brent, what happens when Randy Retraction retracts another bid and the current underbidder tells you he doesn't want it as he spent his money elsewhere?
Does the card now go to next in line or is the auction for that card cancelled?

Please explain what is going on? You said "This user ID has been placed on our block list". but yet he is still there, and from what I understand, is still bidding?
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  #23  
Old 08-14-2017, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
It would have been nice to see the bids cancelled, but what can you do.
$7,601.00 and won by the guy with the 20 retractions. He will likely be banned now I am guessing?

Last edited by irv; 08-15-2017 at 03:39 AM.
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  #24  
Old 08-14-2017, 07:47 PM
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Perhaps they were not malicious retractions.
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  #25  
Old 08-14-2017, 07:50 PM
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http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

I like the guy who put in 28 bids. Quite a deviation from his usual pattern, it appears, but whatever. All is good.
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  #26  
Old 08-18-2017, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Huigens View Post
This user ID has been placed on our block list. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions
And yet the same bidder managed to place a bid the next morning (first one on the list). Odd. (Brent's I mean Betsy's message is time stamped 08-14-2017, 12:28 AM.)

http://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/401...p2047675.l2565

Bidder on the 63 Topps:
1***3(1023) $7,601.00 12 Aug 2017 at 5:53:45PM PDT

Bidder on the Unitas:
1***3(1023) $5,100.00 14 Aug 2017 at 9:58:46AM PDT
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He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-18-2017 at 05:43 PM.
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  #27  
Old 08-18-2017, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
And yet the same bidder managed to place a bid the next morning (first one on the list). Odd. (Brent's I mean Betsy's message is time stamped 08-14-2017, 12:28 AM.)

http://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/401...p2047675.l2565

Bidder on the 63 Topps:
1***3(1023) $7,601.00 12 Aug 2017 at 5:53:45PM PDT

Bidder on the Unitas:
1***3(1023) $5,100.00 14 Aug 2017 at 9:58:46AM PDT

Even All-Pro offensive linemen miss some of their "blocks".
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  #28  
Old 08-18-2017, 07:00 PM
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Even All-Pro offensive linemen miss some of their "blocks".
delete. Just not worth it...

Last edited by CMIZ5290; 08-18-2017 at 08:30 PM.
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  #29  
Old 08-18-2017, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 View Post
Here is my recommendation. Instead of the useless and worthless rants that have been going on for years, screw with him on listings. If that's how everybody feels, throw it back at him. Ebay doesn't give a shit, period, they never will, so why worry about the recourse??. This conversation has been stale for years, so shake some shit up.....Make something happen...Leon, I'm sorry if this is wrong, but my God, this is ridiculous...This is a conversation that comes up every two weeks or so...
here is a suggestion: when you see the title of the thread, don't open it. my god, problem solved.
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  #30  
Old 08-18-2017, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsFan1941 View Post
here is a suggestion: when you see the title of the thread, don't open it. my god, problem solved.
Or the poster of the thread lol.
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  #31  
Old 08-18-2017, 11:19 PM
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Default Ignoring a problem ..

.. usually makes it go away .
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  #32  
Old 08-23-2017, 05:24 PM
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That blocked bidder somehow keeps bidding, I wonder how he manages it.

http://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/401...p2047675.l2565



1***3(1036) $2,950.00 23 Aug 2017 at 1:48:26PM PDT
1***3(1036) $2,950.00 21 Aug 2017 at 8:06:20AM PDT

And yes, it's our same bidder as in the first post, who Betsy "blocked" on the 13th. He now has additional feedback.

1***3(1036) $7,601.00 12 Aug 2017 at 5:53:45PM PDT
1***3(1036) $7,601.00 8 Aug 2017 at 2:56:34PM PDT
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-23-2017 at 05:55 PM.
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  #33  
Old 08-23-2017, 06:05 PM
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Peter are you in the midst of a work interview in order to secure the apparent vacancy that PWCC has for a dedicated "auction monitor"?
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  #34  
Old 08-23-2017, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botn View Post
Peter are you in the midst of a work interview in order to secure the apparent vacancy that PWCC has for a dedicated "auction monitor"?
Greg, it took me about 10 minutes to confirm my suspicions here. Ebay isn't as transparent as it used to be, but it provides enough data that it's still possible to fact-check some lies.
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He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-23-2017 at 06:29 PM.
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  #35  
Old 08-23-2017, 06:14 PM
botn botn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Greg, it took me about 10 minutes to confirm my suspicions here. Ebay isn't as transparent as it used to be, but it provides enough data that it's still possible to fact-check some lies.
Wait a moment. Are you suggesting that Brent and Betsy have lied?
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  #36  
Old 08-23-2017, 06:16 PM
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I am suggesting that in post 15, 10 or so days ago, Betsy assured us the 20 retraction bidder had been blocked, and that according to ebay the same 20 retraction bidder just placed a bid on a card in a PWCC auction (and had placed another bid on the same card 2 days ago, and at least one other on the card and other cards the morning after he was banned). Draw your own conclusions.
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He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-23-2017 at 06:28 PM.
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  #37  
Old 08-23-2017, 06:20 PM
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But remember some rules do not apply:

"He/she is a very regular bidder and has spent almost $60k with PWCC in the last three months, and has every intention to proceed with the purchase should he/she win the card."
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  #38  
Old 08-23-2017, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botn View Post
But remember some rules do not apply:

"He/she is a very regular bidder and has spent almost $60k with PWCC in the last three months, and has every intention to proceed with the purchase should he/she win the card."
That's fine, then be up front about it, and don't tell us the bidder is blocked when he isn't. Don't play us for fools.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
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He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
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  #39  
Old 08-23-2017, 06:28 PM
botn botn is offline
Greg Schwartz
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We could be doing this by email but...isn't most or all of what they post just giving lip service so that people just let them be? There have been no consequences for what they have been been caught doing so lip service has served them well.
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  #40  
Old 08-23-2017, 06:31 PM
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All one can do is shine a light and hope someone cares.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
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  #41  
Old 08-23-2017, 06:35 PM
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octavio ranzola
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This will never end
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  #42  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
All one can do is shine a light and hope someone cares.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjackson44 View Post
This will never end
Like Peter just alluded to, it shouldn't end until something is done.

Not a word PWCC speaks can be taken as the truth.
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  #43  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:15 PM
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Jeffrey Lichtman
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Are there any class action lawyers on the page?
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  #44  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
Are there any class action lawyers on the page?
Kevin Quinn got banned, I think.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.
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  #45  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:20 PM
PiratesWS1979 PiratesWS1979 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irv View Post
Not a word PWCC speaks can be taken as the truth.
...and this is why I'll never consign again and very rarely ever bid!
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  #46  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiratesWS1979 View Post
...and this is why I'll never consign again and very rarely ever bid!
I was a fool, which is who they cater too, as I believed their big letter, talking about the stopping/banning shill and string bidders thinking it was the truth.

I actually believed, between them and E-Bay, that I was actually bidding/purchasing from a caring, open and transparent AH.

What a fool I was!

Last edited by irv; 08-23-2017 at 08:32 PM.
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  #47  
Old 08-23-2017, 09:06 PM
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Well, our boy just won a 9K card.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Fleer-F...19.m1438.l2649

And a 7k card.

http://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/401...565&rmvSB=true

And possibly others I don't feel like searching for.

Honestly I doubt I would ban him either especially if I had reassurances he wouldn't keep doing it, but then again I wouldn't say that I had if I hadn't, nor would I make a big deal out of a blocked bidder policy if I didn't really have one.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at
https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/

He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt.

Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 08-23-2017 at 09:14 PM.
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  #48  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:38 PM
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Yup, and the under bidder cost him 4K on the Unitas (if he pays).
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  #49  
Old 08-24-2017, 02:48 PM
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And recorded prices just continue to climb .....
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Successful transactions with Peter Spaeth, Phil Garry, Don Hontz, JStottlemire, maj78, bcbgcbrcb, secondhandwatches, esehobmbre, Leon, Jetsfan, Brian Van Horn, Brian Dwyer, MGHPro, DeanH, canofcorn, Zigger Zagger, conor912, RayBShotz, Jay Wolt, AConte, Halbig Vintage and many others
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  #50  
Old 08-24-2017, 02:54 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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Very odd as someone contacted me about not paying on a pwcc auction, do to questionable results. He said the blocked him immediately!


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Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors
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