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  #1  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:03 AM
The Nasty Nati The Nasty Nati is offline
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Default What is Feller's True American Rookie?

Bob Feller has three rookies. The 1937 R314C "Creamy" Wide Pens, 1937 V300 OPC, and 1937 W463-7 "4-on-1" Exhibits.

The R314 Wide Pens and V300 OPC were made in Canada, but what about the 1937 W463-7? Is that considered his first true American rookie or do we have to resort to the 1938 Goudey?

Finally, what do people consider his most highly coveted rookie? The 1937 OPC?
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati View Post
Bob Feller has three rookies. The 1937 R314C "Creamy" Wide Pens, 1937 V300 OPC, and 1937 W463-7 "4-on-1" Exhibits.

The R314 Wide Pens and V300 OPC were made in Canada, but what about the 1937 W463-7? Is that considered his first true American rookie or do we have to resort to the 1938 Goudey?

Finally, what do people consider his most highly coveted rookie? The 1937 OPC?
The R314 Wide Pen of Bob Feller isn’t from the Canadian subset, the Canadian set is mostly Canadian players and a dozen Detroit Tigers players. The Feller card is from the “creamy” R314 set... which was distributed in the US.
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Last edited by rhettyeakley; 12-08-2018 at 12:12 AM.
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  #3  
Old 12-08-2018, 01:32 AM
The Nasty Nati The Nasty Nati is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhettyeakley View Post
The R314 Wide Pen of Bob Feller isn’t from the Canadian subset, the Canadian set is mostly Canadian players and a dozen Detroit Tigers players. The Feller card is from the “creamy” R314 set... which was distributed in the US.
Interesting, I thought it was issued in Canada.

So the R314 Goudey is his first true American Rookie. It seems the 1938 Goudey carries more of a premium.
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  #4  
Old 12-08-2018, 06:16 AM
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Here are some Fellers to compare. The OPC is a tough one.

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  #5  
Old 12-08-2018, 09:15 AM
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Hi Ben -

The issue is that some R314s have been misclassified. Really, some are V352s, which are in the American Card Catalog. That classification, for whatever reason, has disappeared these days. Instead of calling some R314s and some V352s, everything is now lumped under the R314 header.

We call everything R314 these days and there are five classifications of those per the Standard Catalog. (R314-1, R314-2, R314-3, R314-4, and R314-5). R314-5 is the all Canadian subset. That one is without question supposed to be V352. R314-4 is a bit murkier. That's the one with the Feller. However, I believe those are V352s as well for several reasons.

First, they are believed to be printed in 1937 with R314-5 (R314-1, R314-2, and R314-3 are all believed to be 1936. Second, R314-4 has the creamy borders just like the Canadian R314-5. Third, in the American Card Catalog, Burdick says that V352 includes 'additional Canadian players'. That infers to me that the set also includes some American players. There are no American players in R314-5 so that leaves us with R314-4.

At a minimum, R314-5s are V352s, and personally, I believe that R314-4s are V352s as well.

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Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati View Post
Bob Feller has three rookies. The 1937 R314C "Creamy" Wide Pens, 1937 V300 OPC, and 1937 W463-7 "4-on-1" Exhibits.

The R314 Wide Pens and V300 OPC were made in Canada, but what about the 1937 W463-7? Is that considered his first true American rookie or do we have to resort to the 1938 Goudey?

Finally, what do people consider his most highly coveted rookie? The 1937 OPC?
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  #6  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Cozumeleno View Post
There are no American players in R314-5 so that leaves us with R314-4.
I agree 100% with everything you said up to this point. There are Detroit Tigers players in the Canadian set. They are really difficult to find and somewhat hard to differentiate than the creamy r314’s but they are part of that set (even though they have never really been cataloged as such. I have collected the regular “creamy” R314’s for many years and nearly every card I have rec’d has come from the United States (original “new to the hobby” finds). There should be some prior threads about the Tigers players as I remember posting about them years ago.
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  #7  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:02 PM
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Default Type 5 is the cheap-looking washed-out finish

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Originally Posted by rhettyeakley View Post
I agree 100% with everything you said up to this point. There are Detroit Tigers players in the Canadian set. They are really difficult to find and somewhat hard to differentiate than the creamy r314’s but they are part of that set (even though they have never really been cataloged as such. I have collected the regular “creamy” R314’s for many years and nearly every card I have rec’d has come from the United States (original “new to the hobby” finds). There should be some prior threads about the Tigers players as I remember posting about them years ago.


..The "creamy" 1937 Type 4 is much more intense..

..
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:13 PM
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Default Rare correct flips



..the graders very rarely got it right. I don't even bother submitting unusual stuff anymore. Not worth the aggravation of explaining to young kids at PSA and mailing rare expensive stuff back and forth 3,000 miles several times. As long as we on 54 know what things are , that's fine. I've mellowed my stance on TPGs.

..

..
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2018, 05:42 PM
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Thanks - that's interesting. I've never seen any cataloged as such, as you said. The Standard Catalog has only identified Canadian cards as Type 5s. Will look for the previous Tigers post you referenced.

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Originally Posted by rhettyeakley View Post
I agree 100% with everything you said up to this point. There are Detroit Tigers players in the Canadian set. They are really difficult to find and somewhat hard to differentiate than the creamy r314’s but they are part of that set (even though they have never really been cataloged as such. I have collected the regular “creamy” R314’s for many years and nearly every card I have rec’d has come from the United States (original “new to the hobby” finds). There should be some prior threads about the Tigers players as I remember posting about them years ago.
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2018, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati View Post
Bob Feller has three rookies. The 1937 R314C "Creamy" Wide Pens, 1937 V300 OPC, and 1937 W463-7 "4-on-1" Exhibits.

The R314 Wide Pens and V300 OPC were made in Canada, but what about the 1937 W463-7? Is that considered his first true American rookie or do we have to resort to the 1938 Goudey?

Finally, what do people consider his most highly coveted rookie? The 1937 OPC?


That's definitely the one I'm trying to land...was under-bidder to another member on a PSA-6 earlier this year...but, I'll get it someday.

I do have the Wide Pen...the 4-in-1 is less interesting to me.
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  #11  
Old 12-08-2018, 06:43 PM
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Default 1937 Cleveland Press Indians Album

Not a card, but a newspaper cutout intended to be collected. 1937 Cleveland Press Indians Album. One of the first Feller “cards” for those with a liberal definition of a card (like me!)
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File Type: jpg 50E6F4FD-2AD0-4840-ABEA-841FA070D49E.jpg (7.2 KB, 305 views)
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  #12  
Old 12-08-2018, 07:48 PM
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Default Difficult Example ---

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozumeleno View Post
Thanks - that's interesting. I've never seen any cataloged as such, as you said. The Standard Catalog has only identified Canadian cards as Type 5s. Will look for the previous Tigers post you referenced.


This is the hardest of the Type 5 Tigers I think-- the left photo is the Canadian washed-out "matte finish" ; the "creamy" type 4 on the right has a slightly thicker "C" and "G" in the "Charles Gehringer"..... coffee helps.

..
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  #13  
Old 12-08-2018, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeGarcia View Post


This is the hardest of the Type 5 Tigers I think-- the left photo is the Canadian washed-out "matte finish" ; the "creamy" type 4 on the right has a slightly thicker "C" and "G" in the "Charles Gehringer"..... coffee helps.

..
Great cards/photos - and relatively easy to spot the difference when next to each other.
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  #14  
Old 12-08-2018, 09:11 PM
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I hope this ended up with a board member. One of my biggest regrets was selling this one. Great eye appeal for a "5"
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  #15  
Old 12-08-2018, 11:25 PM
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My vote is for the R314 above, for two reasons: (1) it is to me by far the best looking of the contestants; and (2) I have owned one in nice shape for over 25 years. It is interesting to think that the image was undoubtedly taken in 1936, when he was just 17, and after the season was over, went home to finish high school! He would have won somewhere around 350 games but for his heroic voluntary service in WWII. Very, very underrated player!

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  #16  
Old 12-09-2018, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati View Post
Finally, what do people consider his most highly coveted rookie? The 1937 OPC?
The '37 OPC is definitely his most valuable rookie card.
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  #17  
Old 12-09-2018, 07:28 AM
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Never liked how some R314 Feller cards say 1936 on the flip!
Here is the back of the '37 OPC:
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:20 PM
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There is also apparently a 1936 Boston American Stamps newspaper cut-out, but I have yet to see one.

I would prefer the OPC, but I’ve settled for a ‘37 Creamy since the cost of the OPC is so prohibitive.
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Old 12-10-2018, 07:34 AM
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Derek is correct, a 1936 "stamp" of Feller does exist, a newspaper cut-out. I have seen it before. That is his only catalogued 1936 issue which would make it his earliest collectible (obviously not including amateur photos like HS, etc.). The 1936 issue would also qualify as Feller's rookie although not his rookie card as it is a newspaper cut-out and, therefore, does not qualify as a "card".

All three of the previously mentioned Feller cards are considered rookie cards with the OPC being the most desirable due to scarcity (although the 4-on-1 Exhibit is probably very close in terms of a similar number of known examples) and the '37 Goudey being the most widely collected. For BB HOF RC collectors, the Goudey makes sense as it fills the rookie card slot and saves money for other rookie cards that will cost you a lot more money as you pursue the set (that's the card of Feller that I collected myself when working on my BB HOF RC collection).

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  #20  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:53 PM
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Default Another 1937 Rookie Year Issue

We can debate endlessly whether this is a card, but this is an extremely rare 1937 rookie year issue. And it's Wheaties -- what's more American outside of Apple Pie?
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:13 AM
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Nice thread and a lot of good info BUT the original question was concerning his first American card? The 1936 stamps are sort of a card, to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by h2oya311 View Post
There is also apparently a 1936 Boston American Stamps newspaper cut-out, but I have yet to see one.

I would prefer the OPC, but I’ve settled for a ‘37 Creamy since the cost of the OPC is so prohibitive.
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by griffon512 View Post
We can debate endlessly whether this is a card, but this is an extremely rare 1937 rookie year issue. And it's Wheaties -- what's more American outside of Apple Pie?
Ooh, I like that one!
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2018, 10:47 AM
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As long as we are stretching the definition of “card” there is also the 1937 Goudey Thum Movies as well. It has an ACC #, pictures him and was produced by a Gum maker (Goudey)
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:26 AM
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Good point, Rhett. And if we take it even further, we could always include his early 1930's Woltz Studio Cabinet. I'll see if I can muster up an image of it later.
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:43 AM
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R326 Feller
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:57 AM
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How about the M114? Not sure the year it came out. 1937, right?
edit - a quick Google search says the pin stripe jersey version is from '37.
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:05 PM
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So again, we are back to....the only 3 items mentioned in this thread that are "cards" and qualify for rookie card status are the Goudey Wide Pen, OPC and 4-on-1 Exhibit. If we take it a step further, only considering American "cards", we are down to 2, Goudey Wide Pen and Exhibit. Both are essentially the size of a standard postcard. Before debating whether a postcard should be considered a "card", remember the exorbitant prices being paid these days for the 1925 Exhibits Lou Gehrig. Do you think this would be happening if the hobby did not consider that card to be Gehrig's rookie card?
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Old 12-11-2018, 09:57 PM
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Default feller rookie

I was really hoping the 1936 Boston American Sport Stamp of Bob Feller would surface on this thread. I have not seen one before.

Here's a larger pic of the 1937 Cleveland Press Indians Album Bob Feller cutout - maybe its not in the running for Feller's US rookie card, but still one heck of a collectible.
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File Type: jpg 1937 Cleveland Press Indians Album #18 Bob Feller.jpg (78.1 KB, 164 views)
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:56 PM
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Sorry, I wasn't able to track down the image of the Feller stamp that I had seen previously. Here is a similar example, obviously not Feller and a different newspaper but this is what it looks like. BTW a similar Joe DiMaggio stamp also exists, likely used for multiple newspapers in 1936, which would also qualify as a rookie for Joe D., although not a card.
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Old 12-12-2018, 08:01 PM
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Here is another example of a 1936 newspaper sport stamp, again not Feller and a different newspaper but the same template.
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:28 PM
The Nasty Nati The Nasty Nati is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb View Post
So again, we are back to....the only 3 items mentioned in this thread that are "cards" and qualify for rookie card status are the Goudey Wide Pen, OPC and 4-on-1 Exhibit. If we take it a step further, only considering American "cards", we are down to 2, Goudey Wide Pen and Exhibit. Both are essentially the size of a standard postcard. Before debating whether a postcard should be considered a "card", remember the exorbitant prices being paid these days for the 1925 Exhibits Lou Gehrig. Do you think this would be happening if the hobby did not consider that card to be Gehrig's rookie card?
Yeah, I guess the conclusion is the American rookie is the Goudey Wide Pen and 4-on-1 Exhibit.
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  #32  
Old 12-13-2018, 06:19 PM
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Default And To Further Muddy The Waters....

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati View Post
Yeah, I guess the conclusion is the American rookie is the Goudey Wide Pen and 4-on-1 Exhibit.
..Stretching the definition of "card" , there's this 1937 Dixie Ice Cream Premium ; this is a pre-production printers' proof /office copy which was preserved by a family in New Jersey many years ago ; note that there are no punched holes in the left border ; there are salesmens' samples that show up once in a while but they are from a spiral-binder and have about twenty-five small perforations on the extreme left edge. The first small Feller Dixie lids were I believe 1938.....I guess we could say this is his rookie premium ?? I love this hobby.....

..

..
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  #33  
Old 12-14-2018, 03:38 PM
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Default Sports Stamps

Hope I'm not derailing the thread too much from the original topic, but here are a few more of the Sports Stamps from West Coast papers, including DiMaggio, Jessie Owens from 1936, and a some PCL player and manager examples.
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File Type: jpg DiMaggio Sports Stamp.jpg (59.2 KB, 138 views)
File Type: jpg Jessie Owens Sports Stamp.jpg (62.5 KB, 137 views)
File Type: jpg Gehrig Sports Stamp.jpg (65.3 KB, 136 views)
File Type: jpg LA Examiner PCL Sports Stamps.jpg (58.3 KB, 137 views)
File Type: jpg SF Examiner PCL Sports Stamp.jpg (61.1 KB, 137 views)
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  #34  
Old 12-16-2018, 12:47 PM
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Didn’t know the west coast examiner papers did the stamp cards too. Now I gotta chase some new Joe Louis types!

Can anyone show the Canadian and American creamy type Greenberg cards side by side? I am wondering which I have.

As for Feller rookies, I’d vote for the 1936 newspaper cards. I’ve always thought of them as cards. I have the Exhibit so I am voting against my financial interests. Though I am definitely targeting the wheaties next. Love that series.
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  #35  
Old 02-16-2019, 11:20 PM
spec spec is offline
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Default Sorry for the delay

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb View Post
Derek is correct, a 1936 "stamp" of Feller does exist, a newspaper cut-out. I have seen it before. That is his only catalogued 1936 issue which would make it his earliest collectible (obviously not including amateur photos like HS, etc.). The 1936 issue would also qualify as Feller's rookie although not his rookie card as it is a newspaper cut-out and, therefore, does not qualify as a "card".

All three of the previously mentioned Feller cards are considered rookie cards with the OPC being the most desirable due to scarcity (although the 4-on-1 Exhibit is probably very close in terms of a similar number of known examples) and the '37 Goudey being the most widely collected. For BB HOF RC collectors, the Goudey makes sense as it fills the rookie card slot and saves money for other rookie cards that will cost you a lot more money as you pursue the set (that's the card of Feller that I collected myself when working on my BB HOF RC collection).
I apologize for resurrecting this old thread, but I couldn't locate my Boston American Sports Stamps when it was live. Stumbled across them tonight, so here's a scan of Feller's rookie "card."

B.0b Ri.ch@rds0n
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  #36  
Old 02-17-2019, 12:48 AM
Zan Zan is offline
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Originally Posted by spec View Post
I apologize for resurrecting this old thread, but I couldn't locate my Boston American Sports Stamps when it was live. Stumbled across them tonight, so here's a scan of Feller's rookie "card."

B.0b Ri.ch@rds0n
Well done!
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  #37  
Old 02-17-2019, 07:02 AM
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JLange JLange is offline
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Default Just wow!

Wow! Never seen the 1936 Boston American Sport Stamps Bob Feller before! Thanks so much for sharing!!!
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