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  #1  
Old 09-22-2016, 09:48 AM
Jim F Jim F is offline
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Default "Secretarial" or Forgery ?

Hi guys. I picked this up about a year ago and then found out it isn't a good autograph. It is dated 1956. Does anyone have an opinion on whether this may be a secretarial type item from that time or just a plain old fake? Thanks




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  #2  
Old 09-22-2016, 10:59 AM
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Jim,
BEWARE of uncancelled GPC's with a valuable autograph.
They were a favorite of a forger named Ron Dross.
Mr Dross has already had his obituary written but his legacy still lives on.
Though it certainly did not make me unhappy to learn of his early demise.
I guess being 200 lbs. overweight has its consequences.
My Clarence Darrow quote applies here.
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Last edited by RichardSimon; 09-22-2016 at 11:00 AM.
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  #3  
Old 09-22-2016, 11:21 AM
Jim F Jim F is offline
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Thank you. Good enough for me.
I'm out $500 Canadian but atleast it's out of circulation.


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  #4  
Old 09-22-2016, 11:53 AM
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I assume you had no chance of getting your money back?
Can you mention the name of the seller?
And $500 Canadian for Ty Cobb should set off alarm bells.
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Old 09-22-2016, 12:00 PM
Jim F Jim F is offline
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I deal with a lot of antique/estate type of sellers locally. 99 percent of them have no clue whether a sports item is good or not. That's ironically where I come in. Totally my fault for jumping the gun on this one. Some times you just have to take your lumps.
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  #6  
Old 09-22-2016, 01:44 PM
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David Atkatz David Atkatz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim F View Post
Thank you. Good enough for me.
I'm out $500 Canadian but atleast it's out of circulation.


Might have made more sense to indelibly label it a forgery, and then keep it as an exemplar of Dross' work. It had pedagogical value.

Last edited by David Atkatz; 09-22-2016 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 09-22-2016, 02:28 PM
Klrdds Klrdds is offline
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Roy Pitts sent out thousands of GPCs in the 40s , and was quite a collector of baseball autographs during that time. But this Cobb is a cut affixed to the GPC , so without the postmark suspicion is suggested-as should always be the case . I would like to know how Pitts acquired this one.
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  #8  
Old 09-22-2016, 02:32 PM
Jim F Jim F is offline
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It was not a cut. It is toning from the piece being in a cheap mat
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Old 09-22-2016, 02:33 PM
Jim F Jim F is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klrdds View Post
Roy Pitts sent out thousands of GPCs in the 40s , and was quite a collector of baseball autographs during that time. But this Cobb is a cut affixed to the GPC , so without the postmark suspicion is suggested-as should always be the case . I would like to know how Pitts acquired this one.
Maybe the forger typed that on too.
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Old 09-22-2016, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim F View Post
Maybe the forger typed that on too.
Stuff like that has been done many times to give false provenance to an item.
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  #11  
Old 09-23-2016, 01:36 PM
djson1 djson1 is offline
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Interesting post, guys.
Any tell-tale signs on the actual signature that would give it away that it's a forgery? At first glance to me, it looked close to most of the Cobbs I've seen, so I'd like to learn from the old school masters here.
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2018, 06:32 PM
SetBuilder SetBuilder is offline
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I had to bring this thread back from the dead, because I think a legit Ty Cobb was destroyed here. I was SHOCKED when I saw the postcard torn in pieces.

Just because a GPC is uncancelled does not mean it's automatically bad. I think some really bad advice was given here.

The GPC could have been returned in a larger package. It is not out of the realm of possibility that Cobb sent it back in his own envelope.

I was a TTM collector when I was a teenager and I distinctly remember several situations when the celebrity sent back the autograph in their own envelope and my own SASE was untouched.
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2018, 06:56 PM
SetBuilder SetBuilder is offline
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Here is an uncancelled Roy Pitts TTM GPC, slabbed by PSA:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg roypitts1.jpg (77.7 KB, 370 views)
File Type: jpg roypitts2.jpg (76.2 KB, 366 views)
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2018, 07:31 PM
SetBuilder SetBuilder is offline
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Same GPC with a very similar signature sold for $960 at REA just a couple of months ago, with a JSA LOA: https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...cut-signature/
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2018, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SetBuilder View Post
I had to bring this thread back from the dead, because I think a legit Ty Cobb was destroyed here. I was SHOCKED when I saw the postcard torn in pieces.

Just because a GPC is uncancelled does not mean it's automatically bad. I think some really bad advice was given here.

The GPC could have been returned in a larger package. It is not out of the realm of possibility that Cobb sent it back in his own envelope.

I was a TTM collector when I was a teenager and I distinctly remember several situations when the celebrity sent back the autograph in their own envelope and my own SASE was untouched.
I would have to agree!!! Why would you tear up this Cobb after one opinion???? Who told you this was fake?? I am with you I think it was good Why would anyone do that after one opinion???
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  #16  
Old 11-15-2018, 07:06 PM
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Default Cobb

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetBuilder View Post
Same GPC with a very similar signature sold for $960 at REA just a couple of months ago, with a JSA LOA: https://www.robertedwardauctions.com...cut-signature/
Geez. The op looks a lot like this one and actually has good flow. I hope it was bad... hate to see something like that torn up.
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2018, 08:27 PM
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Not sure why OP would tear this up Looked to be a very good Cobb!!
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2018, 09:42 AM
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Isn't this the same piece with a JSA letter? Note the damage near the stamp in the auction listing, it's faint in the OP's photo.

Not passing judgment on the piece, although I think all the Pitts collection autographs I had in past had rubber stamp return addresses or were hand written.

http://www.albersheims.com/ty-cobb-s...n-lot5246.aspx
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  #19  
Old 11-16-2018, 02:13 PM
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Not the same... multiple differences.
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2018, 04:28 PM
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Default Ty Cobb comparison

Years ago we purchased a Ty Cobb cut before authentication was available. When we took the cut to the National several dealers made the same comment, the Cobb was the best forgery they had ever seen, we did get our money refunded from the seller!

Comparing a PSA authenticated against the one questioned, to me the "C" in Cobb looks completely different.

Question? Did his signature improved from the earlier authenticated signatures--sorry, but there are many bad Cobb auto out there in circulation!
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File Type: jpg 1557-1942-cobb-cut-signature-psadna.jpg (41.7 KB, 86 views)
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