Cheatriots At It Again....

[steve B]

Originally Posted by rats60

The difference is what other teams were doing was allowed by the rules. That wasn't good enough for the Pats, they had to break the rules. It gave them an unfair advantage. If it wasn't a major reason they won 3 SBs, how come they have won ZERO since then?

It wasn't like they were blowing teams out, it was 3 close wins, two on last second fgs, Since then, they are losing those close games (to the Giants). I'd say having the other team's signals was a major reason they won.

You can turn a blind eye to the Pats cheating. Just don't expect the rest of us to ignore it.

Taping the practices and signals was and I believe is standard practice. That there's a rule stating where this taping can be done pretty much confirms that. Prior to the pats taping from the wrong place the Jets had someone taping from the wrong place and the Pats didn't go to the league, just asked him to leave.

Frankly, if taping practices and signals is as common as it is, and a head coach is too dumb to change those signals the team is probably going to have some problems anyway.


Hey, I get it.
The Pats used to be truly horrible in just about every way.
A coach whose main highlight was getting electrocuted during his introductory press conference.
Players harassing a female member of the press.
And generally just being a bad football team.

And as sports fans do, I looked anywhere else for the reason. The refs were against us, the rules were unfair, anything except the organization was just bad from the top down. Sure, they had some good players. Plunkett was pretty good, and was better after he left. Hmmmmm .......must be something odd going on there.....(Like the Raiders having a clue)


I'm looking forward to the superbowl, and the matchup between the most successful Pats head coach and the second most successful Pats head coach.

You mad bro?

Steve B

[pgellis]

Breaking news from Jay Glazer:

http://m.tmi.me/1eXHpm

[gregr2]

Originally Posted by pgellis

Breaking news from Jay Glazer:

http://m.tmi.me/1eXHpm

This is what I thought would happen from the beginning. Some no name, low level employee would get blamed and fired for this. The Patriots (Tom Brady) will of course claim that they never ever ever ever ever ever told him to reduce the air pressure in the balls, he just did it on his own.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by gregr2

The Patriots (Tom Brady) will of course claim that they never ever ever ever ever ever told him to reduce the air pressure in the balls, he just did it on his own.

Of course

[itjclarke]

Maybe it's time to start a parallel Scooter Libby thread to lend some perspective.

Like Mike said, there's been some good stuff said, examples given, but seems the posse doesn't seem interested. What my Niners allegedly did by paying players under the table would be far far more severe than playing with lower pressure game balls. What any number of teams, that for whatever reason never had to face this type of scrutiny is more severe than deflated game balls.

Dean- re fumbles, I've seen reference to those stats. It's interesting, and I'd be curious to check out individual player stats to see how their fumble rates increased or decreased in NE (but trying to get work done!!). I did do a quick scan of Legarrette Blount's stats, and looked like he fumbled at a similar rate in NE as TB. I do think strong coaching emphasis on protecting the ball (look at Tiki Barber's career) and quickly benching fumble prone players can go a long way toward better offensive turnover numbers. I also consider a lot of other things as the truest factors in not fumbling-- being strong especially hand strength, protecting the ball (4 points of contact), being able to safely transfer ball hands, covering up with 2 hands when needed, wearing sticky gloves, etc. Just like some teams were ahead of the curve teaching stripping techniques (relatively recently, especially in secondary), I'd guess the Pats position coaches may be very good at teaching ball security techniques. Just checked, they did not lead the league in fewest fumbles this year, and were tied with 3 other teams for 2nd.

I vow I am not a Pats fan (and not blushing) and I was very happy when the Niners beat them in NE on MNF last season. This whole debacle has definitely given me a stronger rooting interest in the SB though.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by gregr2

This is what I thought would happen from the beginning. Some no name, low level employee would get blamed and fired for this. The Patriots (Tom Brady) will of course claim that they never ever ever ever ever ever told him to reduce the air pressure in the balls, he just did it on his own.

Agreed. I once took the fall for a multi-million dollar deal that failed, even though I had nothing to do with it - but I was a paramecium and even the people on the other side of the deal understood what was happening. I even had management explain the situation to me beforehand, and we all agreed (me included) that it was best that we put my name on it as opposed to blaming the guilty and losing the deal.

I got a raise and a promotion for doing so. This is all part of business 101. The equipment manager will get a lobster dinner and a huge pile of cash. The Pats are grateful, but the behavior on all sides was expected. Even the NFL will be happy with such an outcome - it was the only way this could end, so I don't doubt it in the least.

[Runscott]

I echo Ian in that this has been a great discussion, with only minor flaming

I hope it all is swept under the rug prior to Superbowl Sunday, then the Patriots and the NFL can bring in 'The Wolf' after a week or so.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by steve B

Taping the practices and signals was and I believe is standard practice. That there's a rule stating where this taping can be done pretty much confirms that. Prior to the pats taping from the wrong place the Jets had someone taping from the wrong place and the Pats didn't go to the league, just asked him to leave.

Frankly, if taping practices and signals is as common as it is, and a head coach is too dumb to change those signals the team is probably going to have some problems anyway.


Hey, I get it.
The Pats used to be truly horrible in just about every way.
A coach whose main highlight was getting electrocuted during his introductory press conference.
Players harassing a female member of the press.
And generally just being a bad football team.

And as sports fans do, I looked anywhere else for the reason. The refs were against us, the rules were unfair, anything except the organization was just bad from the top down. Sure, they had some good players. Plunkett was pretty good, and was better after he left. Hmmmmm .......must be something odd going on there.....(Like the Raiders having a clue)


I'm looking forward to the superbowl, and the matchup between the most successful Pats head coach and the second most successful Pats head coach.

You mad bro?

Steve B

This makes no sense. The only one mad is Tom Brady for losing to the Seahawks and then running away like a little girl instead of shaking Richard Sherman's hand.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by rats60

This makes no sense. The only one mad is Tom Brady for losing to the Seahawks and then running away like a little girl instead of shaking Richard Sherman's hand.

I guarantee, nothing would make a player look like a bigger chump than would accepting Richard Sherman's mock conciliatory hand shakes. Ask Michael Crabtree last year. I think in both cases those guys did well to just walk away, rather than to let it escalate which is all Sherman wants. I give it up to Sherman though, he's an amazing talent and a champion talker and head shrinker. He's to the NFL what Gary Payton was to basketball.

I expect to see LeGarrette Blount and some pulling guard running his way quite a bit on Sunday. Also, so much of what NE does passing, they do from the inside out (backs, TEs and the slots), so will be interesting to see how much a factor Sherman will be. The one I can't wait to see is Kam Chanceller vs Gronk, one of Sunday's more compelling potential matchups.

[FenwayFaithful]

.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by FenwayFaithful

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...into-bathroom/

So the ballboy carried 2 large bags into a one stall bathroom, emptied the Patriots' bag of footballs, deflated 12 footballs by 1-2 PSI, put the footballs back into the bag, and exited the bathroom in roughly 90 seconds? Let's remember that the ballboy was not aware of any future investigation and wouldn't have been in any rush to do all of this. It's much more likely the kid was taking a piss, which is, you know, the purpose of a bathroom. This story has become an absolute joke.

I was telling a buddy he took a piss then either washed his hands, or "stink palmed" the Colts' game balls... if you've seen Mallrats, you know what I'm talking about.

[itjclarke]

Love the use of the term, "person of interest" btw, like this is some super high level investigation into terrorism or espionage. "Perp" would have been great too.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I guarantee, nothing would make a player look like a bigger chump than would accepting Richard Sherman's mock conciliatory hand shakes. Ask Michael Crabtree last year. I think in both cases those guys did well to just walk away, rather than to let it escalate which is all Sherman wants. I give it up to Sherman though, he's an amazing talent and a champion talker and head shrinker. He's to the NFL what Gary Payton was to basketball.

I expect to see LeGarrette Blount and some pulling guard running his way quite a bit on Sunday. Also, so much of what NE does passing, they do from the inside out (backs, TEs and the slots), so will be interesting to see how much a factor Sherman will be. The one I can't wait to see is Kam Chanceller vs Gronk, one of Sunday's more compelling potential matchups.

Brady started it by talking trash to Sherman. When you start something and the other guy beats you, be a man and admit you are wrong. You don't run away like a little girl. That is pathetic. I understand why Pats fans don't have a problem with that, they are still in denial about Spygate.

Crabtree didn't talk trash to Sherman before that game. It was Sherman who initiated it. In that situation you just walk away. Those two situations aren't remotely comparable.

[th38larg]

I don't go too crazy over sports analytics, but I thought this was pretty damning. If you don't really think that deflated balls (no laughing please) gives you much of an advantage, you should check this out. It's not all about Brady either.

Apologies if this was already posted in the thread or you don't like to read graphs.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com...-proof-in-2007

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by th38larg

I don't go too crazy over sports analytics, but I thought this was pretty damning. If you don't really think that deflated balls (no laughing please) gives you much of an advantage, you should check this out. It's not all about Brady either.

Apologies if this was already posted in the thread or you don't like to read graphs.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com...-proof-in-2007

The conclusions in that article are laughable. One outlier year and the rest are all right in line with the pre-2007 years. Big deal.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Tabe

The conclusions in that article are laughable. One outlier year and the rest are all right in line with the pre-2007 years. Big deal.

... and to single out Tom Brady (with Manning) as pushing for the 2007 rule change is ridiculous. Every QB in the league would push for this, but Brady happened to have the star power to get it done.

I can't offer proof of a prior rules change, but I also highly doubt that home teams had ALWAYS supplied the game balls prior to 2007. I'd guess individual teams have supplied their own balls for the bulk of NFL and football history (they do at all other levels). I'd guess this freedom may have been restricted around the same time the "K" ball came into effect... but may be wrong.

Adding-- just read Brad Johnson bribed someone $7500 to break in the balls prior to the SB in 2003. Classic. Either Bucs fans needs to step up to defend their tainted title.. or we can all just agree to not care.