Authnetic Grade - Why not a Number

[insidethewrapper]

I have a grading question. If a card is determined to be authentic, why isn't it numerically graded instead of an (Authentic ) only grade? If it is miscut or trimmed etc. then why wouldn't it get a Grade of 1.
I thought all the cards were determined authentic or not and then graded by number. Why do some not get a number ?

[kilo]

i would assume that some cards are in such bad shape that they dont even warrant a "1", yet they are very real. in other cases, the person submitting the card only wants an authentication, and not a grade ('why' i couldn't even begin to speculate). or perhaps the card in question cannot be graded as it is cut from a complete card (4-on-1's come to mind). many reasons could it be....

--mike.

[packs]

An authentic card is very different from a 1. A card that is poor is in its original state in terms of size a few other factors. Cards that have been trimmed are no longer in their original state and have been altered. To me there is a huge difference between an authentic card and a poor card. I would not want a trimmed card being graded as anything other than authentic.

[g_vezina_c55]

for me Auth = 0

[Taxman]

Authentic but beautiful

[skelly]

Personally, I'll take an authentic over a poor grade all day. I just think it sounds bad ( poor ) authentic is like well its real, but certainly not in great shape. This is speaking from a collecting standpoint. I realize that a poor grade card generally sells better than an authentic. I buy poor cards all the time and re-submit for the auth. grade.

[drc]

I think authentic means its altered or otherwise majorly damaged-- ala a big portion missing--, while a grade poor card has to be whole. With natural but significant wear it's a judgment call whether it falls into the authentic or poor camp, but the powers that be feel that the 1-10 grades apply to cards in their natural state and altered cards fall outside that system.

I agree with with the initial post's take. I think it's fair to call an 'authentic' card, even an altered one, poor. Though I've seen grade 1 cards, and there are different levels of poor.

In the end, any grading system involves arbitrariness.

[birdman42]

Because "Authentic" is the best description for cards like these that have had color added (on the back)
Bill

[steve B]

I'd love it if they started showing why it's an "A". I can understand not wanting to put a grade on a card with a funny cut or one that doesn't measure up the the min size, but those can be factory and lumping them together with trimmed or otherwise altered cards just doesn't seem "right".

I'd take odd but original over trimmed, and have a handul of each.


Steve B

[wazoo]

I actually have a question about trimming (not trying to hijack the thread). I bought a t206 a while back and it was deemed trimmed. Now this card is in great shape, and measures larger than it actually should be. I know that t206s can be larger and still be trimmed, but I'm just not seeing it with this card. Corners are crisp, edges and sides are straight, etc. Now I'm just wondering that either PSA made a mistake or the person just did an amazing trim job?

[steve B]

Could be a really nice trim, or a mistake.

The edge quality is the thing to look for. The front should have a slight curve towards the side, and the back should have a tiny ridge towards the back.
A bit of very minor chipping on the back all along the edge is a good sign too.

Those are the basic traits of cardstock cut on a guillotine cutter especially for the 1910 era. Modern guillotine cutters cut a bit more crisply

The typical trimming will have very sharp edges front and back. Or a sharp edge front and a bunch of chipping on the back.
The usual tools for "good" trimming are either a sharp blade (Xacto, scalpel, single edge razor etc) Or a shear type paper cutter. Neither will make quite the same sort of cut the pro equipment will make.

Be sure to especially check the corners, as they can be rolled larger and cut back to match the sides.

Steve B

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'd love it if they started showing why it's an "A".

I agree! TPG's occasionally list on the flip why its an authentic.
Be it trimmed, re-backed, color added or what have you.

SGC did list on the flip that this card was skinned, so why do it for some and not for others?

[Paul S]

So how would you grade this? I got it as a kid in the sixties pre TPGs. Obviously trimmed, I just wanted the card. Do I get an Authentic, Authentic (Trimmed), or either combination with a numerical grade? The card, otherwise, presents beautifully -- original gloss, clean back, etc.

[Taxman]

Authentic can not receive a numerical grade. Only means the card is authentic...Numerical grade means card "appears" to be unaltered.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by Taxman

Authentic can not receive a numerical grade. Only means the card is authentic...Numerical grade means card "appears" to be unaltered.

Kirk, I guess you answered my question. What a bummer!
Still, I think there should be something "in between" it all. After all, graders are subjective anyway.

[steve B]

That would be hard to do. People already either misunderstand or misrepresent a card graded authentic. You'll see them on ebay listed as "near mint" but slabbed as "a" and the description says it's been authenticated with no mention of the alterations that make it look NM.

Imagine the confusion if there were grades like T-5 or a grade with a trimmming qualifier?

Sadly I think cards with serious alterations will simply have to be "A" and stand on their own aesthetic merits -Or lack of.

The Robinson is pretty nice considering the lack of borders. Likely done in 57 so it matched the new cards. Says a lot about it's time and how we looked at cards then.

Steve B

[z28jd]

Who says an Authentic card can't be graded one? Obviously you've never heard of Mint grading

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...item35c1f588f3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...item35c1f59b9d

[travrosty]

grading cards is a pig in a poke from the beginning, everyone obsessing over a grade, half grade. its unbelievable. they invented grading so they can grade millions of cards and make millions of dollars. they didnt invent card grading for you, the collector. the collector ceased being a collector when they care more about numbers than cards.

i have the number 5 on sale right now for the incredible low price of 16,000 dollars, way below book. the number 4 recently went for 40,000 so this is a steal. email me if interested.