Need your help with a EBAY deal gone bad

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Posted By: Bobby

I sold a raw T206 Card for $56.00 on EBAY and the buyer sent to PSA and it
came back as trimmed. I agreed to take it back minus the listing fees and
when received will issue a refund. After 6 weeks the card has still not
shown up in the mail and of course the buyer sent it back just standard
mail with no signature or tracking number. Buyer has over 700 positive feed back
with no negatives.

We are both active on the Net 54 board and have both agreed to abide but
what the board votes on this issue.


A. Full Refund
B. Partial Refund ($25.00)
C. No refund

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Posted By: David Vargha

He sent it back uninsured? That's 100% his fault. However, if he's a good guy I'd split the loss with him (especially since it is so small).

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Agree with David...split the loss and move on.

Frank

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Posted By: warshawlaw

You should have defined your terms; he should have sent it back with some kind of tracking to prevent this sort of thing.

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Posted By: leon

From what you said, Bobby, he said he would send it back for a refund. If you haven't got it back, then no refund. On such a small amount I would probably split it....but technically it was on him to get it back to you...I sent a T3 Johnson, to a board member with no tracking, as the Post Office was packed and I did one of those "self mailing" machines, at the PO. Had he not gotten it I would have refunded his money.....regards

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Posted By: Brad Green

If, based on his eBay feedback and his reputation on net54, you feel in your gut that he actually put the card in the mail to you, I would say give him a $25 refund. However, you should have told him to send the card back insured. (He should have known to send it back insured without you having to tell him...) But, hindsight in 20/20. I would, however, feel better if he would present me with a receipt from the post office that indicates that he sent something to your zip code on the date that he said he did. (A sample P.O. receipt is below.) I always keep P.O. receipts for 6 or 9 months in the event that somebody questions whether or not I sent the card out. The P.O. receipt in and of itself is not proof that he actually sent you what he said he did, but it at least shows that he sent something to someone in your zipcode on that date. The P.O. receipt also indicates the name of the P. O. from which he sent the package, but I removed that from the P.O. receipt below.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Where I nearly always pop for the cost of priority mail with delivery confirmation through click n ship for any card worth more than $100, just to generate a receipt for the mailing and a tracking history. Ditto for all returns.

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Posted By: Bobby

Leon:

I use the PO machines all the time it lets you track the package and gives you a number on the printed reciept. It also lets you insure the package the only downside is the maximum is $200.00

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Posted By: Max Weder

A question: how much should he have insured the trimmed card for?


Max

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Posted By: David Vargha

A question: how much should he have insured the trimmed card for?


The amount he expected to get back. In this case, $50.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

at MOST, I'd do the $25.00. Otherwise, you guys gotta figure out who dropped the ball on the insurance--him for not buying it or you for not requiring it. And....with the post office, it could STILL show up. I've gotten things 6-8 weeks late.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I've done a few returns on ebay items and EVERYTIME I will make sure that I have some type of confirmation indicating that I sent the package. I used to send items back with delivery confirmation. Now I do what Brad does, I get a Post Office receipt that indicates the zip code destination of the package.

If the buyer can provide the Post Office receipt then I think you should abide by the agreement made. If no postal receipt (or other delivery confirmation) can be produced then it's up to you to decide what you want to do. If you feel that the person is honest and you want to be a good guy then you could send him $25 (about half the amount of the purchase price minus fees, etc), but (IMO) you'd be very generous for doing so.

Bottom line: As a seller it's always best to list your return policy. I figure if someone contacts me within a reasonable amount of time after the auction I would make a refund on non-graded items (provided I received the item or the buyer has some type of reasonable shipping confirmation).

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Posted By: Paul

I love that T3 Johnson!


I vote for a full refund, since the card was trimmed, & it's a fellow N54 member.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

You misrepresented the card in your sale.

He incurred the cost of validating your misrepresentation.

He then had to pay to return the trimmed "$56." card to you.

It didn't get to you - too bad - what is the value of a $56 card if it is trimmed? What is your good will worth?

If you want to pinch some pennies, then subtract your estimate of the actual trimmed card value from the purchase price and add in the grading fees necessary to prove your error. The balance is due the purchaser.

imho.

People are watching.

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Posted By: Joann

Half. But only because there is not much money involved so a good will gesture is easily made.

Defective products of every imaginable type are sold every day with neither buyer nor seller aware of the defect at time of sale, and baseball cards are no different. It's not dishonest, it's not misrepresentation in any intentional sense, it just simply happens. I can't offhand think of any venue, product, industry etc in which a full refund is even considered without return of defective item to a seller. Hard to imagine standing at the return counter at Target trying to explain why you should get a full refund on a defective toaster that you don't have with you.

If I buy something and find a subtle defect after purchase, and then I lose it, or somehow completely destroy it, I have no right to any relief from the seller just because the product I lost or detroyed was imperfect.

Harsh, but with the analogy of how the vast majority of product returns are handled, I think it's fair.

So half because it's easy, not too much money, and would be a good thing to do - involves fellow board members, interest of good relations, etc. But if it were $5,600 instead of $56, the good will gesture would not make sense.

Situational decision contrary to general practice this time, I think.

Joann

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Posted By: Brad Green

Very well said, Joann.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Gilbert is out in left field.

If you sold the card on eBay, had a good scan of it, then the buyer bought that card... Unless you had some sort of warranty that the card would grade as not trimmed, or that you'd accept return if it came back trimmed.

If the guy wanted a PSA card, he should have bought one. He got what he bought. I'm surprised you offered a refund because it would not grade.

The current threads about the most overgraded and undergraded cards tickle me. If these guys know so much about the true condition of a card (and I truly believe they do), then they should all forego getting some third party to opine as to the condition of a card. As it now is, they pay for the grading then whine when it isn't right.

I don't know lots about diamonds. I've bought a few. I have some understanding about cut, clarity, color, and carat. I do like to get a jeweler I trust to tell me about a diamond I'm buying, he can "grade" it. I kinda think I know a bit about cards, and it seems a waste of money to pay for grading.

So to answer the question, I'd do whatever would let you sleep at night untroubled, shave without cutting yourself, a resolution that wouldn't have you contemplating it while in the shower. Do you have frequent dealings with the guy, or is it a one time transaction? Would there be more transactions if this one ends well??

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Posted By: Rick

Full refund

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

If I am out in left field, I sure don't belong there - Julie is our left fielder, and she deserves the starting role.

But Im thinking that the seller was as surprised to find out that the card was trimmed as the buyer was. I can see the buyer opening the package, realizing "Oh crap, it is trimmed. Double crap, the seller won't believe me, I have to get it graded" ... Ok it is verified ..."Now I have to incur further cost to ship this back, what is its value? Should I insure it? No."

All very unfortunate. I am not sure how the card was described, and it is difficult to make a determination without that fact; however, The seller actually taking reposession of the trimmed, otherwise $56. card does not appear important in the overall scheme of things.

And as far as Joanne's analogy, I agree it was well stated, however, I have returned a broken socket wrench to Sears who told me (without inspecting it) to throw it in the trash and take a new one.

To ask the buyer to absorb half of the purchase price in addition to the other costs which he has already incurred appears wrong to me. The trimmed card may not be worth $25. anymore than it is worth $56. I don't know.

It is the seller's responsibility to fully describe what is offered for sale, and the buyer's responsibility to make sure that he is right. If we collectively feel that is not the case, I will view trading in this venue differently than I currently do.

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Posted By: BcD

has it right!

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Posted By: davidcycleback

If an item is not returned by the buyer, there's no requirement or guilt trip for the seller to give a refund.

However, giving a partial refund would be similar financially to having had the buyer keep the the misdescribed card with partial refund, or receiving and reselling the card for the lesser trimmed value. Presumably, if the card is trimmed and you received the card you wouldn't get the original sales price upon resale.

As a seller, some of my most loyal customers aren't the ones where the sale and shipping went perfectly every time, but where I made a dumb error and cleared it up to their satisfaction when they pointed it out.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Personally do what you'd expect if the shoes were on the other feet.
Full refund 100% fees, shouldn't be tooken out either,
He should get a full refund, It's not his fault at all that it was trimmed. He shouldn't be out a dime, its not his fault.
And you'd expect the same from a seller.
Just my opnion.
NOW RETURNING IT FIRST CLASS MAIL......
I do agree it was a bit silly to send it first class mail, For sure since it was a return for refund.
I feel he felt it wasn't worth it since it was a damaged trimmed card. Thats a different story. I have never had anythign lost in the mail yet, ever. shocks me how often mail gets lost, never has happen to me once, everything comes, late maybe but it comes. I'd love just once for my phone bill or cable bill etc to not make it.
but as one other member said,
Show what you are, People are watching.

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Posted By: anthony

"no proof, no money" period...

unfortunately, for him/her the card got lost and if he has great feedback and is a board member then he should of known better than to not insure it or have delivery confirmation added...$1.30 for insurance, and .60 cents for delivery confirmation. if the card shows up at a later date, then issue the refund but until then, no dough!

my best pitch was the one that made it to the plate!

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I've had the following experiences out of hundreds:

• One UPS package did not make it to me.
  
• NEVER lost a FedEx package (to or from).
  
• Two lost USPS payments from me. In one case the USPS sent back what was left of the envelope and contents with a note of apology. I assumed it got jammed in one of the sorters they use. The other was just totally LOST, never found.
  
• One insured package to me came very late. USPS tracked it and found it.
  
• I've had a couple of USPS packages show up a few weeks after they were shipped (nope, not Xmas season, just bad luck)
  
• I've never had a USPS package (I sent) not make it to its destination.
  

Overall I rate the USPS fairly competent and safe. I still don't understand how the USPS insurance works. I realize the shipper pays for the insurance at time of shipment but I don't know who's supposed to file a claim, etc.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I had one package returned monthes later as it got caught in the USPS packaging machine. I also had an overnight USPS package arrive in 13 days due to clerk error. So late and postally misdandled packages do happen.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

C-it is everyones responsibility of merchandise to PROTECT
the card , regardless the value. i never complain of ship-
ping cost and most that know me, do as the overnight king.

This situation should be a lesson learned to what could have
been a much more valuable problem.