General Discussion: Is This a Brown Old Mill Back?

[Zach Wheat]

I was going over my T206 cards and sorting them by back. I am not a back collector so I have not paid too much attention to the backs in my set. However, when I was reviewing the pile of Old Mill cards, one card immediately jumped out at me. It looked different than the others. Was the "odd" card a vaunted brown Old Mill back?

Over the last few days I have reached out to some fellow collectors more familiar with T206 backs. Their insight into fronts/backs/printing/cutting was very helpful and I decided, per Leon's recommendation, to move the discussion to a new thread. I respectfully request that those collectors that have a more intimate knowledge of T206 backs not comment until later in the thread. Let some of the newer collectors voice their opinion and go through the thought process regarding backs, where they were printed and how they were cut and let them make their own decision.

Hopefully, the following discussion as new information comes out will be a great learning experience for all. At a later time, I will add more scans that paralleled the collective thought process.

Is this a brown Old Mill back?


Z Wheat

[g_vezina_c55]

i don t think. i think it is a faded black

[jcmtiger]

Looks Brown to me, but I am no expert.

Joe

[Sean1125]

Faded black

[CardTarget]

Faded black.

[Zach Wheat]

Here is a scan of the Old Mill next to a faded black back. Clearly it looks like a different shade than the other Old Mill back.

And when you compare them side by side...you can see the similarities and differences.


Z Wheat

[ullmandds]

I vote for "50 shades of grey"!

[wonkaticket]

Sorry but no.

[Brian Weisner]

Hi John,
Agreed, but to be fair if you haven't seen one in person, it can be tough to tell.
Hope you are well. Brian

[MVSNYC]

I believe Wonka once said...if you have to ask...then no. (sorry bud, faded black)

[Sean1125]

One is simply more faded than the other.

[Tanman7baseball]

Funny, I too literally thought I had a Brown Old Mill back last week. I picked up a few Old Mills last week from an old collector and noticed two of the three looked brown. I couldn't tell for certain... I began to ask multiple people what color they thought and their decisions were split 50/50. Once I scanned the cards and compared to others I realized the Brown Old Mill backs are much more distinct in color. Also, I did some more research and found out that they are so incredibly rare that the odds of me having one are incredibly slim. After looking at the cards in various forms of light, I came to the sad conclusion that they are just very faded black.

[caramelcard]

The faded black Old Mills (like this one) take on a bit of a brown hue, but it's different then the actual brown Old Mills. It's a good example of why collectors often think they have one.

[JerryTotino]

I also agree that this card is faded black.

One easy thing you can do to dismiss almost all of the faded black cards is to see if the card is factory cut. No known Brown Old Mills are factory cut. Thus, unless it is hand cut there is no possible way for it to be a Brown Old Mill.

Jerry

[brianp-beme]

I hear faded black is the new brown.

The brown would have to be more distinctly brown for me to feel confident in calling it a Brown Old Mill.

Brian

[abothebear]

definitely blue.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by JerryTotino

I also agree that this card is faded black.

One easy thing you can do to dismiss almost all of the faded black cards is to see if the card is factory cut. No known Brown Old Mills are factory cut. Thus, unless it is hand cut there is no possible way for it to be a Brown Old Mill.

Jerry

Bingo. I think this is one of the key issues. We talked about this for a while and this was one issue which bothered us...the side edges appeared to be straight cut.

Z Wheat

[Zach Wheat]

Here is another pic of this card with 8 other Old Mill cards.

[brob28]

Nice scan for comparison Zack, shown within that group it's easy to see how these can be mistaken.

[Texxxx]

Look at it at a hard angle. Almost straight at the edge. Lots of times it will show it as black instead of brown looking.

[thehoodedcoder]

you should sell it on ebay for 2500.00 and say that its a brown black inbetween color worth 2500 bucks as a curiosity.

kevin

[ethicsprof]

very interesting comparisons you've offered here.
I would lean toward 'no' but have to agree with Brian W.
that having it in hand would surely help make a decision clear and unequivocal.
all the best,
barry

[tonyo]

When I first read this thread and looked at the jpeg, my reaction was "no" - I applied Wonka's test: if you have to ask, it's not brown.

Fast forward to today. I was just looking at Howe's (Ed's) brown hindu Foster in the Goodwin Auction and was reminded:
Weren't brown Old Mills printed with the same ink as Brown Hindus ? Seems like I read that in a thread recently.

I believe the Goodwin Hindu is a good bit more distinctly brown than the old mill. Didn't do any cutting and pasting of jpegs in this case though.

Might be a good test, but even so the scanners probably need to be the same to tell for sure.

Tony