Ebay and feedback

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Posted By: Judge Dred

I think I've seen enough threads on this but I'd really like to know piece this all together - who should leave feedback first - the buyer or the seller? I think that a buyer who pays quickly and completes their end of the obligation should receive positive feedback first.


There are good experiences and there are the bad ones. Here's a good one. I purchased an item from OLDORIOLE and I received positive feedback relatively quickly. A week after the feedback was left I contacted him because the item hadn't arrived. There was an addressing error and the postal service was rather slow on this one because the item was received almost three weeks after positive feedback was provided.

What was really nice about OLDORIOLE was that he took ownership of the issue and he kept in contact with me regarding the item. This is the type of person who will get my future business.

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Posted By: Julie

seller or buyer. But some sellers do feel that they want to know how their article was received before they say nice things about you. My feedback is also spotless. All 82 of them!

Ebay kept telling me I should PAY NOW for the last item I bought, and I paid twice...the guy returned my extra pay, and ebay is sitting on it. Trouble is, my account looks like he returned BOTH my payments; had to write him about it to make sure he got and kept one payment (item had already shippped), and he said yes, that ebay was having major problems.

Nice to have helpful buyers and sellers!

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

When I sell something, I usually leave feedback for the buyer the minute payment is received because that is the only part of the bargain that they need to hold up. On the other hand, if someone burned me by leaving me an undeserved negative once I left a positive, I would probably wait to see if they buyer is satisfied like many sellers do.

I think it all depends on what kind of experiences people have when selling - thus far everyone that has bought from me has been pleasant to deal with.

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Posted By: 823dek

I agree with the Judge. I either pay priority mail or overnight and some make me wait 10 days or so before that I recieve my goods,so...wouldn't this show some appreciation for those who try to do this right everytime?

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Posted By: honus3415

In a PERFECT world.....

....the seller SHOULD leave feedback first to show confidence in their product and description.

But this allows for potential feedback blackmail of a seller by a buyer for any number of reasons.... such as buyers remorse or a scam of not receiving (true of not) an item which they CHOOSE not to insure.

I truely admire those sellers that put their reputation on the line in this manner. It does seem however, that usually the only ones that do are the ones at the top of the feedback food chain with frequent enough activity that a "neg" wouldn't stay near the top of their list for long.


....so that leaves the buyer going first....and notifying the seller through their feedback of their receipt and satisfaction with the item.

Maybe not so good either....as I have experienced many sellers don't reciprocate because they must be too busy selling items to keep up on such a menial task.


Solution????

Flip a coin?

OR....how about the "less mature" ebayer (one with less feedback of the two) going first and by that action pleading with the "more mature" to do the right thing.... or vice versa.


Although, I think the whole issue of "more feedback is better senerio" has been blown way out of proportion. To get a proper perspective, points based on dollar value should be given. There is no way a 100 positive feedbacks from the sales of $1.00 cards is even worth 1 positive feedback from the sale of a T206 Cobb (in ANY condition!!).

Good people will do the right thing and the others won't. So let your conscience be your guide....


(The views expressed in this block are solely those of this individual and probably do not represent those of anyone else in the human race.)

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Posted By: Julie

I have left many more feedback than I have received--and I always make sure that it's interesting good feedback (unless I've been horribly disappointed, and then I just say "nice"). Buyers just leave more feedback than sellers.
Period.

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Posted By: honus3415

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED - Great vintage items with clear scans and accurate description. Truely an asset to the vintage cardboard communi

(Oops only allowed so may spaces)

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Would it be alright to assume that a one (or two) word reply in a positive feedback indicates the experience or transaction could have been better?

A little code would be good. Does anyone want to make a suggestion as to what word(s) would be appropriate? Obviously the word(s) would have to be something positive yet possibly a bit facetious.

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Posted By: Sean Coe

I'll always leave feedback within a few days after the buyer pays and expect nothing in return. A few customers have told me that the whole feedback thing is a pain, and that unless they complain directly to me after receiving their item, I should conclude that they are satisfied. Several times I have received positive feedback 2 months after the transaction. I think with most buyers its buy, receive, and then on to the next purchase.

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Posted By: dan mckee

As a seller, for 6 years I left feedback immediately after I received payment from the bidder. Recently, I have been burned by 2 bidders who I offered full refunds, they refused, kept the item and clobbered me on feedback. No one is perfect and as a seller, if I make a mistake, I offer a full refund including their shipping. This should never warrant negative or neutral feedback. So, I no longer leave feedback first unless I know the bidder.



I like the way yahoo does it. You can change the feedback you left. This would protect a seller from feedback extortion. Ebay's feedback system is a joke, retaliation feedback from deadbeat bidders is pathetic when ebay could easily tell if the bidder hasn't paid by the seller filling out a final value form. If the bidder didn't pay, the negative retalitory FB he left should be removed automatically.

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Posted By: Jason

As a buyer I dont care when I get it. As a seller I ONLY leave feedback once mine is recieved. I used to leave it when payment arrived but I got burned once and blackmailed to boot. It took forever and hell to get the negative removed after I proved my case easily. THe best solution for eliminating scammer is for ebay to come up with a multiple feedback system......say red feedback for $1-10 items sold, Blue for $10-50 items sold, Green for $51-100 items sold, Yellow for $100-500 items sold, Brown for $500-1000 items sold and say silver for $1000+ items sold. OF course this would never haqppen because it would take up too much time.

JAson

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I have not yet sold items on eBay. For me, feedback has no meaning. Most sellers wait for my checks to clear independent of how much feedback I have.

So those sellers who are so afraid of me trying to pull something on them which is dishonest or unethical, that they withhold feedback, all are still withholding feedback, and will forever.

To my thinking: when I pay, I have done all that I have agreed to do. Provide feedback, or withhold it - it does not matter to a buyer.

I have 74 different positives and no negatives, since 2001.

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Posted By: Cy

I think that the seller should post the feedback immediately after the buyer satisfactorily fulfills his requirement. If a buyer does his job, he should get the feedback immediately. period.

Some of you are saying that you wait until the buyer gives you the feedback before you post his because you feel that you may receive negative feedback. But what if the seller waits until the buyer sends the feedback, then the SELLER sends negative feedback, wouldn't that be the same thing? The fact of the matter is that the first person posting feedback is at the mercy of the second poster. But if a seller does his job and does it well, there is very little reason to worry.

One last note, I always send my payment the following day that I receive the seller's address. I feel that the seller should give me feedback immediately following that. If he doesn't give me feedback first, since I fulfilled my end first, I don't post his feedback either.

Cy

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Posted By: ramram

I left a negative feedback on a scammer (never sent the item and couldn't produce a receipt or even a date when he shipped) and then he actually went and left a negative for me. I notified ebay and Paypal and they eventually got most of my money back (Paypal did by freezing his account) and then they kicked him off of ebay. After that I asked ebay, twice, to remove his negative feedback. Amazingly, they said they could not do it! Unbelievable!!

Rob

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Posted By: Julie

my buyer's feedback, and they had sold me 3 items--one outsdtanding, and two VERY weak. So I just said "nice card" three times. I was actually thrilled with one, and very disappointed with the other two--but couldn't figure out which was which, because it had been so long, the auction pages were long since obsolete. I guess "about time!" for all three would have been more appropriate...

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Posted By: dan mckee

Cy, the difference is that I am selling and bidders look at my feedback before bidding on a substantial item. It hurts me when I am getting nicked wrongly. On the other hand, bidders who do not use that ID to sell, will not be as affected by a few negatives. Sellers do not have the time to check every bidders FB that closely. Plus as a seller, I do not want the buying community knowing me as someone who gives out negatives after I receive positives. I conclude that the seller is at alot more risk than the bidder. As a bidder, I always leave FB for the seller immediately after inspecting the item whether he has left me FB or not. Dan.

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Posted By: Chris

I can't think of any reason a seller would leave negative to a buyer after receiving positive feedback from the buyer. Doesn't make much business sense. I think too much is made of the whole feedback rating. I think most people can look at overall feedback and peoples replies to the negative comments and get a real idea of a persons reliability. I mean, if I see someone that has a lot of neutrals or negs for unusually slow delivery and they have no response to that, I stay away. I use the following rule of thumb for sellers. If they have a total score of 500 or more I look for a positive % of 99.3 or higher and I usually check the feedback if it is less than 99.5. For feedback in the 100 range I don't look at percentage because one neg brings you down to 99.0. I look at the neg and the circumstances and and make my own judgement.

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Posted By: Leon

I just read your post and read "naked" instead of "nicked". I will have nightmares for days about this......later

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Posted By: Aaron

I both buy and sell with regularity, and this is my basic philosophy:

The buyer always leaves feedback first because the buyer is the first to know how the transaction turned out (he receives the item and will either be satisfied or not). The transaction has not truly been completed for the seller, unless he knows the buyer is satisfied and won't be asking for a refund, or otherwise voicing any sort of complaint.

The seller needs to know that the transaction has gone smoothly and the buyer is satisfied--basically that they are not going to be left vulnerable to a negative after they've already given a positive out.

When I've bought an item, I always leave feedback first (unless a seller has beaten me to the punch), once I've received the item and am happy.

When I've sold an item, I always wait until the buyer has left feedback--no matter how quickly he paid.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Well put Aaron! That sums it up perfectly! Dan. Hey Leon, I am 5'3" 310lbs and naked!

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Posted By: honus3415

...if I should leave feedback first as a seller.

Email today from ebay ID "larrygent101"

Dear sir,

am intrested in purchasing you item today and i am ok with buy it now price,i will like to know if you accept a cashier check as a mode of payment and if you will be able to wire transfer the remaning balance to the shipping company in africa via western union money transfer after you might have cash the check and after you might have deduted your own part of the money. I will like you to forward me your contact name and address so that i can forward the cashier check as soon as possible today.you can get back to me via my email address since that is the only way you can reach me.....ok....


There are a lot more undesirable buyers than there are undesirable sellers.

Relinquishing the item puts the responsibility of "first feedback" onto the recipient of that item. Possession of the object is permanent, and unless paid for with cash, fed wire or postal MO*, the funding may be challenged for up to several months in some instances. If paid for cash, fed wire or postal MO, the seller should leave immediate feedback.

Needless to say....I didn't have to read the above to know that I should just send them the item and wait until they get change.

* Postal Money Order - these may be challenged but people are less likely to play games directly with the government.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

it was touched on above: multiple accounts on ebay. Drop one when it gets too polluted.

hey, it works for the AAA selling scum; why not for the rest of us?

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Posted By: 823dek

Most buyers may not pay as fast as I do, but... if you are on the up and up why would you worry about what one would say if you have done your part ?

If you are honest or at least try to be, I don't see any reason to not make the customer happy !

I'll guess that I will see when I sell someday, but I can't believe that I will do anything other than what is right. We are all self righteous to a degree or I don't think we would talk or voice opinion ,we just want someone to here our yak.

At times, the feedback may be a waste to some of you's, but it does show customer appreciation ....like it or not !

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Posted By: Pcelli60

Let me give you guys the story..I get my items prompt, but what I see does not meet the discription nor does it look like the scans. The pictures are a bit small, but could very well be the EX/EX+ as stated. This seller has a very good rating and does a relativly high volume of transactions..So heres the deal. I leave a neutral comment thanking for the service but critical of the condition of the cards(3). He leaves a nasty neutral and insists I should have contacted him before hand..I have almost 200 positive feedbacks from purchasing vintage cards. I'm just letting it all go. But am I wrong? Was I hasty?

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Posted By: Julie

you rfeceived the cards? If after--I gues you just described you disappointment. If before, why?

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Pcelli,

Did you happen to email the seller and tell him that the cards were not what was expected? In many cases the seller just might do the right thing and offer a refund. If there was a gross error in the item description I would hope that the seller would also refund the postage. If it was a relatively small inaccuracy then I'd hope that the seller would at least refund the purchase price of the item.

So far I've seen a lot of different opinions and points of view on this topic. I do like that idea of assigning $$ values/points to the associated feedback system. It could be a valuable tool in "handicapping" the seller. We've seen that there are a lot of opportunist that will buy and sell many dollar items and look pretty good with a 100 feedback with little effort and money.

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Posted By: honus3415

....would be allowing the seller to establish a minimum feedback level for bidders wanting to bid on their items....below which a perspective bidder would have to contact the seller for permission to bid.

Bidders can choose their sellers...sellers cannot choose their bidders.

With the holidays coming there is always an influx of new irresponsible buyers.

I would guesstimate that 95% of my problem bidders have feedback of less than 100.

Many times making a couple extra bucks doesn't always balance the hassle of dealing with some new irresponsible buyer.

I'm not saying that there aren't many very responsible individuals with feedback of less than 100. What I am saying is most problem bidders have feedback of less than 100 and would not take the time to contact a seller regarding an item. Just a way of seperating the wheat from the chaff.

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Posted By: Pcelli60

I never leave feedback until I get the item and I am totally pleased. How else can you do it?

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Posted By: runscott

What if you pay for the item and elect not to purchase optional insurance, and it never arrives, but the seller is friendly and apologetic, and left you positive feedback as soon as he received your payment. Do you leave negative feedback?

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

What proof exists that the seller actually sent the item?

If strong evidence exists that the item was shipped, then the seller has completed his part of the deal, and should get positive feedback.

If strong evidence does not exist, suspicions arise.

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Posted By: Judge Dred

I send items from a main post office. I present the package to the clerk and they provide me with a dated receipt that has the zip code of the area where the package was sent. It costs nothing for this service. A little time in line and you will have a documented receipt from a post office which shows where a package was sent.

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Posted By: runscott

you would leave positive feedback, even if you never received the item? Most ebayers aren't nearly so nice; in fact, I suspect they would leave a negative, regardless of any proof offered.

Don't get me wrong - as a seller, if there is no reason to suspect potential problems, I leave feedback as soon as payment is received. Sure, I might get screwed once in a blue moon - it's minor.

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Posted By: leon

I bought a nice T207 with a miscut back for about $45 on ebay. It got lost and I never got it. I declined insurance. I left a positive feedback and just said it got lost but the seller did his part. The seller had lot's of good feedback and WAS apologetic and even offered some mitigation, which I declined. It was my fault. regards all

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Yes Scott, if I choose to gamble on the performance of the post office or any deliverer, and I lose; I am to blame.

I will feel bad, the seller will feel bad and (well maybe the post office wouldn't care).

But the seller completed his part of the deal. He would have sent it insured, if I was willing to pay the rate.

The seller must get positive feedback in that situation, or IMO the eBayers are unreasonable.

Unless I am missing a seller scam here - am I?

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Posted By: Elliot

Leon, that card might still arrive. I received a card last week that was in an envelope postmarked August 13th. To add to the story, in the interim the seller was NARu'd by eBay. I was sure I had been scammed.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Ive gotten a FedEx overnight shipment 3 months late. But they did (finally) deliver it.

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Posted By: leon

I know it could arrive eventually but the seller did his part. I won't soon forget the run over package (D304) I got from RBCraik. It was very late, got ran over (tire track on the envelope) and the holder was cracked severely...but alas (love using that word) the card was perfect. It probably took over a month in regular mail....later

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Posted By: David Seaborn

Judge,

Thanks for the kind words at the beginning of this thread. Glad to hear you finally got the card and like it.

My two cents on this topic;

As a buyer, I leave feedback after I have received and inspected the item.

As a seller, I leave feedback when payment is received. This means immediately for PayPal, but I wait until checks clear. I know this may leave a seller vulnerable (as Dan correctly pointed out), but this should be very rare. In fact, I've had close to 1,000 transactions and it has never happened to me (knock on wood).

My bigger concern has been leaving a negative when it was rightfully deserved, such as when a winning bidder refuses to pay or even email back. If you leave a negative, you risk a retaliatory negative even though you have done nothing wrong as a seller. I used to not leave them for this fear. Now, motivated by Lew Lipset's comment of "Patheic beyond words" for our old friend ,adamsdad, I have begun to leave them in such instances. The community needs to know about these bidders and I will risk my perfect feedback to get the word out.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Feedback is supposed to be a 2 way proposition. It is supposed to be used so that sellers can identify potential problem bidders and bidders can identify potential problem sellers. If a seller leaves feedback as soon as payment is received, then there is no way for the seller to leave a follow up feedback that the bidder actual was pulling a scam, if this happens to be the cases.

Someone asked what if the buyer leaves pos feedback and then the seller leaves a neg. I don't understand how this could ever happen since the customer is happy with the transaction.

Jay

I saw weird stuff in that place last night. Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, evil stuff. And I want in.

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Posted By: Julie

I watched half a DVD, left glowing feedback--and then watched (tried to watch!) the other half!

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Posted By: runscott

too many negative vibes - if, as a seller, you wait for the buyer to leave feedback, you will be waiting a heckuva long time in many instances. Maybe it's not fair in your mind, but many buyers disagree with you.

If you have no reason to doubt the integrity of the buyer, just leave the darned feedback when he pays you - your feedback rating will grow much quicker.

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Posted By: jay behrens

scott, I don't have aproblem leaving immediate feedback for those that I've dealt with. That's not the issue. The issue is with new buyers that I do not know. I've had several buyers try to scam me and I'm not about to chance my policy. Everyone has as much right to know who the bad buyers are they do who the bad sellers are. When a seller leaves immediate feedback to unknown buyer, he is leaving himself open to being scammed with no way to warn others that the buyer should not be dealt with.

How do you propose to expose bad buyers is things are done your way?

Jay

I saw weird stuff in that place last night. Weird, strange, sick, twisted, eerie, godless, evil stuff. And I want in.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

The relationship between a buyer and seller is ideally not adversarial. I have often appreciated those sellers who assume that I am a man of honor. It conveys to me that they are as well.

And the better sellers are WAY more than that. They are consultants, advisors, historians, and more.

We are not in a fight here. No one is trying to get the better of me. Oh yes, there are the short term thieves. But which thief has been around a while? I guess there is the paper cut out crew. But they are obvious, or should be.

Play nice - essentially everyone else is.

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Posted By: runscott

"...if you have no reason to doubt their integrity..."

My goal in an ebay transaction is NOT to expose scammers - it's to either sell a product or buy a product - if I get in a transaction that is as seriously smelly as the ones you apparently have been running into, then I probably need something other than ebay feedback to rectify the situation.

But, Jay - I think whatever works for you you should keep on doing. If you can use the ebay feedback process to expose scammers you are dealing with, fine - I just haven't run into that many problems. I have two negs, both from idiots, and so far my life is unaffected.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Scott, the problem is that you get fairly decent people that don't understand that neutral and negative FB scars the rating to a point where people only read those.

As a seller, you are going to make mistakes. When you offer a bidder full refund including their shipping, you shouldn't be nicked (naked for Leon). Yet many new bidders do not understand the impact of a neutral.

They do not see the transaction as perfect and you already left them a positive so it is nothing for them to leave a neutral or nagative.

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Posted By: runscott

I understand your points, Jay's points, and the points of everyone who wants to wait until they receive buyer feedback. All I'm saying is that it's a lot less hassel for me, as a seller, to do it my way. I just haven't run into all those negative experiences that you and Jay describe...I don't know why, guess I've been real lucky.

But I think there are pros and cons to either way, so you should do it the way that makes you most comfortable.

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Posted By: hankron

.