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  #1  
Old 04-13-2011, 03:47 PM
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Jeffrey Lichtman
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Default Bonds convicted of obstruction of justice

I told Peter Speath 100 times: no way this guy gets off. Next time he'll listen to me.
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:19 PM
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stupid trial, stupid waste of $$
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  #3  
Old 04-13-2011, 04:22 PM
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Does this mean he won't be bidding against me in REA?
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  #4  
Old 04-13-2011, 06:32 PM
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Hmmm, what have we here, the criminal lawyer calls it wrong and the civil lawyer calls it right.
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  #5  
Old 04-13-2011, 06:40 PM
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Hopefully he'll go to jail also.
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  #6  
Old 04-13-2011, 07:02 PM
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zero chance of jail time. typical government big trial muck up. money, time, resources wasted only to get punked 10 fold in the end. good enough for the prosecution as far as i'm concerned. the way they presented or tried to present their case was more criminal than anything bonds did or didn't do. said or didn't say. time to move on.
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  #7  
Old 04-13-2011, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog View Post
I told Peter Speath 100 times: no way this guy gets off. Next time he'll listen to me.
I agree completely, but why no conviction on the perjury count? The obstruction and perjury go hand in hand in light of the proofs presented. It would appear that some jury members wanted to let Bonds off lightly and reached what was clearly a compromise verdict.



Larry

Last edited by ls7plus; 04-13-2011 at 07:43 PM.
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  #8  
Old 04-13-2011, 08:03 PM
drc drc is offline
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I'm not a lawyer and am not pretending to be one, but perhaps the jurors suspected or thought he lied even though they determined it wasn't proven to the point that guilty was warranted. However, and with their suspicion of lying, they felt his answers to the questions intentionally obfuscatory. One can obfuscate and deceive without literally lying-- just read many eBay auction descriptions--, so guilt of perjury isn't a requirement.

Last edited by drc; 04-13-2011 at 08:05 PM.
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  #9  
Old 04-13-2011, 08:06 PM
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The whole affair was (still is?) an epic waste of tax money. Whatever Bonds did wasn't nearly as bad as what the politicians and the media have done by keeping this nonsense on the front page for years ...
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  #10  
Old 04-13-2011, 08:25 PM
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You know, he was such a jerk at times when he was playing, but was also fascinating to watch, even though you knew it wasn't legit. Really the only guy I've seen in 40+ years of dedicated fandom that made major league pitching look like slow-pitch softball. Bonds kind of gave you a real idea of what it would have been like to watch the Babe or Teddy Ballgame in their primes.

On the other hand, as a lawyer, you don't like to see perjury go unpunished, and in such a high profile case (more or less mandated by the 'roids issues over the last decade), the feds simply aren't going to let it just go by when it occurs before a grand jury. It would be kind of like a really irritated lawyer saying to a judge who's been giving him a hard time that (and I know I'm stealing some other member's line here--my appologies!) "better that people think that you're a fool than to speak and remove all doubt!" Say that, and you'd better have your tooth brush packed! Bonds similarly thumbed his nose at the grand jury, rather than choosing to come clean, and the feds were at a minimum going to make him pay for that conduct, be it through a felony conviction, large-scale attorney fees incurred for his defense, or both.

Larry

Last edited by ls7plus; 04-13-2011 at 08:27 PM.
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  #11  
Old 04-13-2011, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Counts View Post
The whole affair was (still is?) an epic waste of tax money. Whatever Bonds did wasn't nearly as bad as what the politicians and the media have done by keeping this nonsense on the front page for years ...
I would agree if what was at stake was simply whether Barry did or didn't do steroids. What is at stake is whether he knowingly gave false testimony to a grand jury.
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2011, 08:55 PM
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MLB should be convicted for not having a real drug policy and looking the other way. Bonds was one of the greatest players of all-time with or without steroids and MLB allowed him to juice his achievements. They are the real criminals...
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  #13  
Old 04-13-2011, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abravefan11 View Post
I would agree if what was at stake was simply whether Barry did or didn't do steroids. What is at stake is whether he knowingly gave false testimony to a grand jury.
+1

If he wasn't tried then it gives carte Blanche for all "celebrities" to lie and act above the law...it's almost an argument that celebrities should be gone after more diligently since so many see them as role models. They could conceivably be held to the proverbial higher standard...
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  #14  
Old 04-13-2011, 10:07 PM
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mintacular,

From what I have read, the Commissioner's Office HAD a policy against PED's as far back as 1993. The problem was that the Player's Association would not agree to adopt that policy in the labor agreement and so the Commissioner was powerless to do anything. Because, if he had, then the Player's Union would go on strike and that is what baseball DIDN'T need back then.

David
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  #15  
Old 04-13-2011, 10:09 PM
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One count of conviction or four makes no difference . And I'd be surprised if he doesn't at least get some jail time, even if just a few months. Judges take obstruction and perjury convictions very seriously as such actions really shake the foundations of the system so to speak.
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  #16  
Old 04-13-2011, 11:42 PM
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Jeff- if you look at what some related sentences were in obstruction cases like BALCO/Tammy Thomas, he is probably looking at house arrest and probation. I don't believe he'll spend a day in jail. According to a "19 year old blonde named Amber" (good job by the Government getting solid jurors, sheesh), the jury was 8-4 in favor of Bonds on 2 charges (lying about steroids and lying about HGH use) and 11-1 for conviction on the charge he got an injection from someone other than a doctor. The hold out juror was "Nyiesha", who said she almost voted to convict.
Dr. Ting's testimony crippled the Government's case according to 3 jurors. Your first day in law school you learn to never ask a question you don't know the answer to but the U.S. Attorney must have been absent that day.
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Old 04-14-2011, 04:50 AM
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I think the judge may feel she has to give Bonds a taste of jail because of his significance as opposed to the track coach and the other athlete. All in all, the trial resulted in an embarrassment to the govt because they didn't convict Bonds of the charges relating to knowingly using steroids and lying about it to the Grand Jury. Yes, they got a conviction...but it wasn't what they wanted and they were very lucky to even get that.
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  #18  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:42 AM
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So if Bonds will eventually walk, as many of you think he will when this gets appealed.
Won't the same thing happen to Clemens? From the circus like media attention to the huge waste in our tax dollars
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  #19  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:57 AM
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Two thoughts: first, even if Bonds receives just home confinement he's still a convicted felon. Barry Bonds does not like that. Second, Clemens' case has nothing to do with the Bonds case and appears much stronger for the Feds. Perhaps the the prosecutors in Clemens' case will be a bit more competent as well.
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:04 AM
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Jeff- hope you are right about the chances of a little jail time, but my gut tells me he will just get home confinement (what's the legal term?) and probabtion.
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  #21  
Old 04-14-2011, 08:30 AM
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The reason some people see the trial as important is because of the principal of the matter - that he lied to a grand jury and to an extent the precedent it sets (that last part couldnt impact me less). The reason other people dont care is because of the context in which he lied - he lied to feds trying to bust some illegal drug distributor selling drugs to multi-million dollar athletes with no perceivable effect on society as a whole. They're both reasonably logical perceptions based on the world you happen to live in and the way you construct your views.
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  #22  
Old 04-14-2011, 08:47 AM
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Reading the ESPN article, here's the explanation of what got Bonds convicted of obstruction of justice:


[Question asked to Bonds] "Did Greg ever give you anything that required a syringe to inject yourself with?" Bonds was asked.

His [Bond's] answer meandered, talking about his friendship with Anderson. The underlined part in the indictment, the crime he was convicted of, was this response: "That's what keeps our friendship. You know, I am sorry, but that -- you know, that -- I was a celebrity child, not just in baseball by my own instincts. I became a celebrity child with a famous father. I just don't get into other people's business because of my father's situation, you see."

The jury instruction said that to be convicted, Bonds must be found to have "obstructed, influenced or impeded, or endeavored to obstruct, influence, or impede" the grand jury "by knowingly giving material testimony that was intentionally evasive, false or misleading."


(I underlined certain words for emphasis)


I'm not an attorney nor a legal scholar but the answer is obviously not relevant to the question - which in my opinion was vague to begin with. Who ever asked the question should have objected to Bonds' answer as "non-responsive" and asked the question again and pressed Bonds until he got a definitive "yes" or "no" from Bonds. But the key thing the defense should have made issue with (and perhaps they did) was Bonds' answer "knowingly and intentionally evasive"? That would be rather hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in my opinion. Ironically, if Bonds would have answered the question definitively, he would have probably been acquitted on all counts since they had no proof of him using steroids.

Don't get me wrong here. I loathe perjury, obstruction of justice, and the actions of people who break the law by using prescribed drugs in an illegal manner and Bonds probably should have gotten worse and his saving grace was having a buddy willing to fall on his own sword for Bonds. But on the other hand, there should have been at least another 200 ball players who should have been grilled in court over the same issues and got off scott-free.


Entire ESPN article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6347014
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:03 AM
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The evidence on the count that he was in fact injected by Anderson was uncontradicted and by a witness whose credibility apparently was not impeached. Only one juror apparently voted not to convict on that count -- seemingly an act of nullification rather than based on the evidence.
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:56 AM
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The discredited Ting testimony was crippling when it was contradicted. The Government did a horrible job of prosecuting this case considering the time and money expended. Bonds never spends an hour in jail.
As far as the Rocket goes, his case is completely different. You don't have an Anderson who would go to jail to protect his friend, you have a witness who wants to see Clemens buried. I think Clemens is is serious trouble.
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Old 04-14-2011, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
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As far as the Rocket goes, his case is completely different. You don't have an Anderson who would go to jail to protect his friend, you have a witness who wants to see Clemens buried. I think Clemens is is serious trouble.
I agree that Clemens is in serious trouble, and the trial will be in Washington, so he may not get much sympathy from the jury as Bonds possibly did as Peter S. alluded to in the prior post. Although Clemens' trainer may have credibility issues, it could very well be that Andy Pettite is the pivotal witness that makes Clemens go down in flames.
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Old 04-14-2011, 12:30 PM
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i still treasure my autographed bonds baseball which was signed by barry's father back in his playing days in the late 70's--right next to ole al oliver and the rest of the teammates. I have had it almost 35 years now.
it is my now my single prized bond's artifact.

best,
barry
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