LEW LIPSET - BLOCKED BIDDER

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Posted By: BOB

I am relatively new to this forum and I must say I am very surprised with the strong feelings towards Mr. Lipset.

My first experiences with vintage dealers (Mid 1990's)were with Lew and Mark Macrae and I consider myself VERY LUCKY to have had my initial dealings with these individuals. I was very much down on Baseball after the strike in 1994 and vintage collecting helped me regain my passion for Baseball.

I still fondly remember Lew patiently reading a list of approx 80 W514's he had recently logged and were to appear in his next catalog. He certainly did not need to take up his time with a "nickle and dime" collector like myself. Lew was a great help in allowing me to complete this set.

Although my collecting is somewhat specialized, I can tell you I still look forward to each and every one of his auctions.

Bob

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Posted By: ramram

I didn't want to touch this one but I've been laughing out loud during the whole read and thinking about how those that have been banned (the George and Elaine's of Net54) are infuriated over their treatment and everybody else is sliding along the wall looking straight forward (the Seinfelds of Net54) and trying not to upset the Soup Nazi for fear of not getting any crab bisque soup (vintage cards).

Brian was right - "no soup for you!"

Rob M.

P.S. Now I hope Lew has a sense of humor or I might be looking for that armoir that has his collecting recipes in it!

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Posted By: Eric B

I'm actually glad to see this thread. I have had only 1 transaction with Mr Lipset and it was extremely disappointing. The EX and better cards (non-sports) were stained and some had paper loss chips on the sides. Corners were horrible. I assumed that an "old-timer" who was well respected in the hobby would know how to grade.

It was my decision not to pursue a refund. I figure it was a lesson learned and an extra payment for my enjoyment of his books. Plus I just assumed that I would be scolded for questioning a legend. I don't need to worry about being banned as I will not be bidding in any more of his auctions.

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Posted By: Richard L.

I had a very similar transaction with LL about 12 years ago, as I also purchased some non-sport cards from him. It wasn't the overgrading that bothered me, but the note he sent in replying to what I told him the cards value was. He sent a photocopy of the price guide stating my oppinion was "bull****" and here's the proof.Every price guide I've ever seen always made some mention that the "prices" are only to be used as a "guide". I've been collecting nonsport for a long time and have a good handle on values. The funny thing is I bought those cards from someone else 5 years later, at what I thought they were worth and were advertised as "ex" in condition, and "ex" in my book is what I got! I too, don't intend on ever bidding in his auctions again!

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hey Jim,

What do I have to do to get banned from Al Rosen's stuff????


FW

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Posted By: Chuck Ross

Hey fellas, come over to the nonsports board....the stuff in this thread (from both sides) is why I got out of baseball cards a long time ago. Are you having fun yet?

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Posted By: Alan

This is one of those threads whereas Barry will turn the computer off now & then turn it on in the morning & ask, "What did I miss ?"

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

Ok I might be a little biassed here seance I was manly collecting 19th century at the time but when I was first starting out buying more expensive Old Judges Lew was a wealth of knowledge when others did not know or did not want to give that knowledge up. I was a snot noised kid (still am today) and he KNEW I was not going to be buying much from him but he took the time to answer all my questions throughly even ones about cards he was not selling and others where. Lew has always been kind to me and is a great family man. You do have to remember before the age of the internet a instant knowledge Lew was one of the guys that was giving out great knowledge and calling it like it was when a lot of dealers where ripping people off. He is still one of the good guys in my book. No brown noisen here just calling it as I have seen it. I am glad you do not read this board Lew at times it can really make you not want to be in this hobby anymore. I do love to read the posts but come on guys give some people a break ounce in awhile!

My 2¢
Trevor Hocking

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Posted By: joe

Ok, a lot of Lew Lipset bashing, but!!!! Lew set up at many shows and has been very helpful to collectors in the 80's and 90s. At a show in Plymouth, Michigan I asked about some cards I bought from an antique dealer , he replied gruffly they are fakes. I was kind of afraid to approach him at that time. They were fakes and I was able to return them. Listen, Lew is not the easiest person to talk to ,but I have seen worse on this board. I think the "Newbies" in collecting should take a step back and appreciate what some of the oldtimers have done with this hobby. I don't know the age of most NET54 lurkers or posters, but I would bet most are under 40 years old. Some of the posts sound like they came from 2 year olds though. I'm not sure what happened with the yearbook, but Lew is right, there were no scanners in those days and every email I send him I get an answer, about cards or about his treks or vacations across the United states every year.
joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

To make a long story short, Lew always bragged about his auctions ending early - before 11:00 PM EST, if I remember correctly. Well, the LAST auction I bid in of his I had won a lot according to his website when I went to bed at 3:00 AM EST for two bids lower than my max. The next morning I awoke all eager to receive my invoice for the lot of Wilson Franks cards and get the money out. To my amazement, the invoice was for my MAX bid - TWO BIDS ABOVE WHAT LEW'S WEBSITE TOLD ME I WON THE LOT FOR EARLIER THAT MORNING!

To finish the story as quickly as possible, I decided (after speaking with some Hobby friends about the situation) NOT to pay for the lot after being blatantly SHILLED by Lew. I received threatening e-mails from him telling me he was going to tell Rob Lifson and others in the Hobby that I was a non-paying bidder. I told him to go ahead b/c I won lots in Major Auctions ALL THE TIME and paid extremely quick, but I was not going to pay for something that I was blatantly SHILLED on! I have not dealt with him since nor would I ever. He called the house a few times during this ordeal and even got smart with and threatened my fiance'!

ALSO, THE LOT OF WILSON FRANKS CARDS I DID NOT PAY FOR WAS INCLUDED IN HIS VERY NEXT AUCTION. I FOLLOWED THIS LOT CLOSELY AND IT WENT FOR EXACTLY TWO BIDS BELOW MY PREVIOUS MAX BID (WHAT I HAD ORIGINALLY WON THE LOT FOR!).

Lew has done a lot for the Hobby, but he didn't do it for free and is no Hobby Saint nor God. He knows a lot, but treats people like crap. Knowledge is great, but you need to remember the Golden Rule. ALSO, SHILLING IS THE SAME AS STEALING OR TRYING TO STEAL WITH ME - just not an honest thing to be doing, I don't care who does it!

Scott

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Seems like insufficient information to be claiming shilling.

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Posted By: joe

Scott, I really doubt your story.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

If it is not shilling, I don't know what to call it. If this were someone besides Lipset, I am certain we would all be calling it shilling. I have seen this board call out eBay sellers for shilling based on low feedback bidders bidding the card or items up. When someone goes to bed at 3:00 AM and the lot is two bids below his max bid and gets an invoice later in the day at his max bid, I really don't know what to call this other than shilling. I wish I had my old computer and files, as I had proof to all this on the computer. The proof I have now is Heather's word as well, since she answered the calls from Lew while I was out. She had to hang up on him the last time because of his rudeness!

I cannot speak for Jay. However, this is one reason I started another forum with Jay Behrens - to expose people, no matter who they are or how high they rank in the Hobby. There are always some on this board who seem to take the sides of major players in the Hobby or major auction houses when they do wrong. These people usually are the first to bash an eBay seller making an honest mistake or having zero feedback bidders bidding on their items. Going back to Mark's remarks about Lew's rudeness (which Heather and I experienced first hand), if this had been Joe Blow on eBay, there would be almost 100% agreement here that the person is a SOB and should not treat customers that way. Since it was Lipset, some simply believe Mark deserved it for not buying the item he requested scans of. Hell, I have sent SEVERAL scans to people over the years and they have not bought the items from me. Did I ban them from my auctions or be rude - NO! I even thank them for letting me know, so I can move on and sell to someone else (I did this tonight to a person inquiring about an SGC 80 T206 Powers I have for sale on the B/S/T thread).

I had several great dealings with Lew before this incident. I even acquired the T207 Red Cross Blackburne from him in a private deal. Stupid me even took his side when people bashed him for being hateful before this. I am simply telling what happened. I don't lie, nor am I starting to lie now with telling about this incident. It has been a few years since this happened. However, some members of this board have seen the e-mails Lipset sent me then with his threats of telling Rob Lifson and others if I didn't pay for this lot and not even responding to my questions asking how the lot went up two bids after the auction had ended. These members tried to get me to post about this incident then, but I did not b/c fearing there would be remarks like this not wanting to believe what had happened.

So, believe it or not, this DID happen - I swear to it. My physical proof is long gone with my old PC. All I have now are the words of my better half and myself.

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Posted By: Joe Pelaez

"There are eight million stories in our Naked City, and this has been one of them."

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

We have been active collectors of rare and unusual material since 1975.

Our experiences with Lew Lipset have always been positive.

He has been knowledgable, honest, too the point and most importantly
his sales and auctions have contained hundreds of examples of rare
and important material.

We wonder about the level of expectation between "collectors" and dealers.
Whilst it is more appealing to have a nice conversation and small talk
about the latest baseball or political news, we wonder if you are looking
to acquire an item, learn more about a card or card set, or feel like
you have a phone buddy in Centerreach or Carefree.

Lew, like very other dealers in the hobby, had days when he was more
engaging than others. He has and had opinions, and he had people
who appreciated his style and people who were offended by it.

When those who have "been offended" share a story about an unplesant
experience, we wonder how many are not guilty of their own difficult
hobby moment.

We remember card shows in the early 70's where certain big time dealers
would not talk to one another, and even a few of the great guys would
bash others behind their backs.

With Lew, you know where you stand.

He may not make you feel warm and fuzzy, but you will be smarter and
have a greater appreciaton for the history or rarity of an item after
listening to him.

We established a long-time friendship with Sir Edward Wharton-Tigar- the
person who once owned the world's premeiere n and t collections. Wharton
Tigar always told us that Lew was the most knowledgable collector
in America. Don MacPherson, another hobby legend, felt the same way.

In a hobby where dealers compete, where some big players are rather petty,
where well liked players remain smallplayers because their favorite sport is
complaining how aggressive their competitors are, one must conclude
that the Old Judge has played an invalubale role in educating the hobby
and adding to many collections.

One wonders, however, about the plethora of "old ladies" who enjoy sharing their
worst experiences.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: RC McKenzie

I've bought rare cards from Mark and Lew and I think they are both great guys. Probably just a misunderstanding between hardcore collectors. Regards.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

To me, this all seems like a big tadoo over nothing (or little). So someone put someone on a blocked bidder's list. It's the seller's prerogative. I'm surprised that someone would start a thread about being on someone's block list.

I've never bid on or bought anything from Lipset.

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Posted By: Brian

I just had to chime in here after Lipset got on and tooted his own horn.
He is the biggest jerk I have ever dealt with.

I bid in one auction and will never do so again. He was rude, disrespectful, and a complete jackass.
I emailed several members at the time, asking for advice. If anyone is interested in details, they can email me.

I don't know if I am banned, and personally I don't give a damn. Personally, I hope that I am banned now, so I don't get his asinine emails about his going golfing with his family, etc. He is the worst person I have ever dealt with in this hobby, and the worst experience I have ever had.

I agree with others: being a so-called 'legend'or 'icon' does not give the curmudgeon license to be disrespectful.

Hopefully banned,
Brian

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Posted By: leon

I have been away from all computers (at a computer show) for the last 3 1/2 days. Actually I didn't read the board on purpose as I thought it would be good to get away for a few days. My days were completely filled until about 10pm too... I posted about 20 minutes ago and didn't even read this thread first. I am only going to say that all of my dealings with Mr.Lipset have been fine. If I see something he has for sale I will certainly try to win/buy it..."This is America, to each their own". regards

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Posted By: Cobby33

"Rare and unusual." Reminds me of one of the best lines in movie history:

"Chicks dig me because I rarely wear underwear, but when I do it's something unusual."

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Posted By: Anonymous

I had to chime in. Lipset is a very miserable man who hates young guys getting involved in the old cards (his territory). All the aggravation and the meaness that he has done to collectors will someday comeback to haunt him in a bad way afterlife (through Karma). One day he will get a piece of his own medicine. I know of several people that will never help lipset if he needed help in a life crises. That's sad.

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Posted By: leon

YOU can NOT remain anonymous in this thread. If you don't have your full name, or email address on your post, then you need to send me your email/contact info. It's only fair....but if you have your name and/or email address then so be it.....This is one of "those" threads where I need to invoke the "no anonymity" clause...thanks for understanding...If you don't send me contact info and/or full name, or it's not posted here ,then I will end up deleting your post (which I would hate to do, but will), as per the forum rules.... .....best regards

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Posted By: jay horowitz

Here is the information you needed

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Posted By: leon

Thanks....as you know it's definitely not personal....but is only fair. take care...

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Posted By: Joe Pelaez

And the tables were reversed in time.

The current brain picking timid investment flower children, in the place where a digger was.

This forum would be discussing topics, with half the knowledge that it has now.

Even baby mouth Truman Capote, had his way to express himself strongly.

I like Baby Mouth's work, but I prefer John Steinbeck more, and so did the DIGGER that never was.

Joe P.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well there are a few of us who would help him...

And he'd probably help a few of us, too.

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Posted By: Anonymous

From my sources. He was a former stamp dealer who had a nervous breakdown and has been on anti-depressants. Alan Rosen use to work for him in the early 1980's years ago, (i bet not many knew that) and Mr. Lipsetlikes to take out his depression and frustration on people who contact him on a down day. He just can't interact with other human's.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Okay, this thread is starting to go beyond the pale of what should be acceptable for this board. Nobody should be discussing anyone's personal life here.

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Posted By: Anonymous

That will be the end of my two sense. I thought i chime in. Bye Mr. Lipset.

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Posted By: leon

I won't prevent you from saying stuff but I do wish you would edit your above post. I agree with Dan that there is no need dispelling some things about our personal lives....true or not (I have no idea)....I think we might have crossed a boundary. Everyone should try to be nice to everyone else....it's so much easier than being mean...I have found that 100% of the time when I take the high road I feel better. Even if someone messes with me I usually try to take the high road. There is a reason for that..best regards

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Uncool.

-Al

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Posted By: Steve M.

Actually it is Jay Horowitz. I think everyone should know who he he is even though he continues to sign in as Anonymous.

I suggest we

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Not only would I suggest locking the thread, but that last comment by Mr Horowitz should be deleted if he is not man enough to do it himself....I believe even though he identified himself in this thread that making comments of a personal nature like that should not be allowed. Especially since Lew does not post to this board.

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Posted By: Joe Pelaez

Master Jay Horowitz, is too immature to understand what you're saying.

Why do you think that he prefers the cloak of anonymity?
He's not comfortable with his growing pains.

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Posted By: Steve f

Someone got blocked. Is it such a blow to your ego that a salesman outed you? There are plenty of kind Dealers around.

Jason, We should only deal with those that have passed psychiatric screening?.. Good luck finding any. This guy Lew may have an emotional disorder, I ask you this... Who the heck doesn't nowadays?

I vote to lock this thread of tears

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Posted By: Joe Pelaez

It reminds me of Madam La Farge, from "A Tale of Two Cities"

"Off with his head"
"Off with his head"