baseball playoffs

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Playoffs coming which means adding to the legacy of kershaw Last year he was good in the playoffs...now this year is his time to be a legend

4 HR. Some legend. 4.63 career post-season ERA as we speak. Yeah I know small sample size blah blah blah.

[conor912]

The only thing that takes the sting away from the Red Sox getting blown out is watching the Yankees blow a huge lead and lose in extra innings. I'm really excited for a Cleveland/Houston series, though. Should make for some great baseball.

[irv]

Originally Posted by conor912

The only thing that takes the sting away from the Red Sox getting blown out is watching the Yankees blow a huge lead and lose in extra innings. I'm really excited for a Cleveland/Houston series, though. Should make for some great baseball.

Same, but with Encarnacion out now, (imo) they will be in tough, unless their depth is deeper than I am aware of?

Edwin was the main reason I was, and am still, rooting for the Indians so I hope they can still get it done without him.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by irv

Same, but with Encarnacion out now, (imo) they will be in tough, unless their depth is deeper than I am aware of?

Edwin was the main reason I was, and am still, rooting for the Indians so I hope they can still get it done without him.

Last I checked Edwin wasn't toeing the pitching rubber. They'll be fine without him IMO.

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by irv

Same, but with Encarnacion out now, (imo) they will be in tough, unless their depth is deeper than I am aware of?

Edwin was the main reason I was, and am still, rooting for the Indians so I hope they can still get it done without him.

Our depth is deeper than you're aware of. The Indians are the deepest team in baseball, and it's a shame we can't carry 30-35.

First of all, EE is reportedly day-to-day. Finish off the Yankees today, and you can just let him heal. Second of all, his replacement is All-Star Michael Brantley at DH. You pick your poison there. You lose a power bat, but you add a .300+ bat. Think about this. The Indians lineup with EE is Lindor, Kipnis, JRam, EE, Bruce, Slamtana, LF/Gomes/Perez, Gomes/Perez/LF, Urshella. Now you plug and play Brantley in there. Regardless, you still have to get through 6 hitters before you face a lesser bat, and even Austin Jackson is batting around .300 and has hit in that 7 hole, so that would mean 7 formidable hitters before a lesser bat. Plus, Gomes hit the game winner on Friday.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by conor912

The only thing that takes the sting away from the Red Sox getting blown out is watching the Yankees blow a huge lead and lose in extra innings. I'm really excited for a Cleveland/Houston series, though. Should make for some great baseball.

Devastating loss as a Yankee fan. Teased us by blasting Kluber and then made us watch as our vaunted bullpen teased the game away. Cleveland capitalized on every mistake the Yanks made.

Oh well. The Indians and Astros were head and shoulders the best teams in the AL this year anyways. Should be a good series between the two.

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by conor912

The only thing that takes the sting away from the Red Sox getting blown out is watching the Yankees blow a huge lead and lose in extra innings. I'm really excited for a Cleveland/Houston series, though. Should make for some great baseball.

Tee hee...


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[conor912]

Originally Posted by Big Six

Tee hee...


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....and that's why I'm not a betting man

[clydepepper]

Just Sayin':

Teams managed by Dusty Baker are now 0-10 in post-season elimination games...

[frankbmd]

Don't hold me to it, but as an old fart, I don't recall a postseason game in which both clean-up (that means fourth in the lineup) hitters were shortstops (NY at HOU today). Prove me wrong. Don't be shy. I bet I've forgotten 99 such games.




Wow, no response, and according to last night’s broadcast I am correct. Who knew? Even a blind squirrel can find a nut occasionally.




Still waiting for Joe Buck to thank me.

[Sean]

Hey Frank, only twice has the World Series winner used a batting order that featured the shortstop and second baseman batting in the 3 and 4 spots. One was the 1906 White Sox (G. Davis and Isbell). Can you name the other team to bat their SS and 2B third and fourth?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

4 HR. Some legend. 4.63 career post-season ERA as we speak. Yeah I know small sample size blah blah blah.

Shelled in the 7th inning again. At least he is being consistent. 95 innings isn't a small sample size, it is half a season for him.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by rats60

Shelled in the 7th inning again. At least he is being consistent. 95 innings isn't a small sample size, it is half a season for him.

Giving up 4 runs (2 of which when your team is up 7-2 in the sixth inning) is far from being shelled.... he doesnt pitch the same if up 2-0 obviously... hes a team guy

If you want to see shelled...look at Grey, Greinke , T. Walker and a litany of guys this year in the playoffs..

hes still top 3 in the mvp of the series thus far in the dodgers/ariz series......if you are top 3 thats not shelled....by end of series he will be top 1-3...

Dodgers still on march to win it all.....feel free to criticize if dodgers are no longer playing this year..pointless to talk now...especially when kershaw keeps pitching in games his team wins.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That is perhaps the most ridiculous spin I have ever seen put on something. LOL. Stats don't matter when you have a lead. LOL. Yes they do because teams come back. He had yet another mediocre outing. I am sure he would tell you so himself. Period paragraph.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That is perhaps the most ridiculous spin I have ever seen put on something. LOL. Stats don't matter when you have a lead. LOL. Yes they do because teams come back. He had yet another mediocre outing. Period paragraph.

They dont matter. Dodgers won period..and game was never close. You are biased. Especially when you look at this years playoffs he had one of the top 3 starts this year thus far. Times have changed. Pitching in the playoffs is a whole different animal now then even 10 years ago. Wait till series is over..but silly to comment when Dodgers are winning his starts, at least wait till comment if his team is losing. The dodgers care about wins not era. To say you dont pitch differently when your team is up 7 versus 0 is silly as well.

You can win world series MVP if you go 6.1 innings with 4 runs earned and win 3 starts. Heck Livan Hernandez won World Series MVP with a 5.27 era and a 1.829 whip with just 2 W's. Team wins matter obviously..and Kershaw's team won. Plus its not like he gave up 7 runs etc...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

They dont matter. Dodgers won period..and game was never close. You are biased. Especially when you look at this years playoffs he had one of the top 3 starts this year thus far. Times have changed. Pitching in the playoffs is a whole different animal now then even 10 years ago. Wait till series is over..but silly to comment when Dodgers are winning his starts, at least wait till comment if his team is losing. The dodgers care about wins not era. To say you dont pitch differently when your team is up 7 versus 0 is silly as well.

You can win world series MVP if you go 6.1 innings with 4 runs earned and win 3 starts. Heck Livan Hernandez won World Series MVP with a 5.27 era and a 1.829 whip with just 2 W's. Team wins matter obviously..and Kershaw's team won. Plus its not like he gave up 7 runs etc...

Ex post reasoning. And wrong on so many levels.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ex post reasoning. And wrong on so many levels.

Agree to disagree..anyway, many games to go...he still has at least one more start coming in the playoffs..

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Last I checked Edwin wasn't toeing the pitching rubber. They'll be fine without him IMO.

I hope but when a team loses their top run producer, it isn't good news by any stretch.

I honestly don't think he'll be back. Although nothing concrete has come out yet as far as his status goes, I think it is going to be a little more than day to day.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

They dont matter. Dodgers won period..and game was never close. You are biased. Especially when you look at this years playoffs he had one of the top 3 starts this year thus far. Times have changed. Pitching in the playoffs is a whole different animal now then even 10 years ago. Wait till series is over..but silly to comment when Dodgers are winning his starts, at least wait till comment if his team is losing. The dodgers care about wins not era. To say you dont pitch differently when your team is up 7 versus 0 is silly as well.

You can win world series MVP if you go 6.1 innings with 4 runs earned and win 3 starts. Heck Livan Hernandez won World Series MVP with a 5.27 era and a 1.829 whip with just 2 W's. Team wins matter obviously..and Kershaw's team won. Plus its not like he gave up 7 runs etc...

A- they won because of their offense (and Justin Turner is obviously their MVP so far after one game)

B- Home runs are bad, the three things a pitcher can directly control are K's, BB's and home runs (which is why FIP is more predictive of future success than ERA) so, maybe you could make the argument that Roberts should not have brought him out for the 7th, but to try and say he pitched well is a false narrative

C- people are smarter about what matters in baseball now,stuff like pitcher wins aren't considered important any more so Livan wouldn't win MVP in 2017

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

A- they won because of their offense (and Justin Turner is obviously their MVP so far after one game)

B- Home runs are bad, the three things a pitcher can directly control are K's, BB's and home runs (which is why FIP is more predictive of future success than ERA) so, maybe you could make the argument that Roberts should not have brought him out for the 7th, but to try and say he pitched well is a false narrative

C- people are smarter about what matters in baseball now,stuff like pitcher wins aren't considered important any more so Livan wouldn't win MVP in 2017

Right,,he could of been tired gong into the 7th...if he just goes 6 innings and score was 6-4 maybe he doesnt even come out for the 7th.....its not the same thing to give up 2 runs when up 5 versus only up 2 on the late innings.

Justin turner is mvp right now but series is not over...game 2 wasnt great for turner...so again like i said kershaw is top 3 still mvp wise. YOu can also say the Dodgers are winning because the other teams staters are still pitching worse than kershaw...arizona has a more potent offense as well

and for C- you say people are smarter about what matters in baseball now, well holding a lead is more important than era. We can all argue about 'what matters' but there isnt a clear line. Livan still wins MVP as well. Plus season isnt over for Kershaw yet....need to wait for year to end to judge...but if he wins every start...i not sure how that hurts his legacy even if era is 5 if hes a top starting pitcher in all of the playoffs...again people are smarter about what matters in baseball now. starting pitching in the playoffs is a different standard than regular season....if you disagree than its not so easy to say 'people are smarter about what matters in baseball now" I value helping your team win.. There are about 90 % of the starters in this years playoffs that could of lost the game that kershaw won....goin g6 innings and getting a large lead is worth a lot.....again its only 1 game....still more time to decide.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Giving up 4 runs (2 of which when your team is up 7-2 in the sixth inning) is far from being shelled.... he doesnt pitch the same if up 2-0 obviously... hes a team guy

If you want to see shelled...look at Grey, Greinke , T. Walker and a litany of guys this year in the playoffs..

hes still top 3 in the mvp of the series thus far in the dodgers/ariz series......if you are top 3 thats not shelled....by end of series he will be top 1-3...

Dodgers still on march to win it all.....feel free to criticize if dodgers are no longer playing this year..pointless to talk now...especially when kershaw keeps pitching in games his team wins.

He was shelled. Dave Roberts was just smarter than Don Mattingly and got him out of the game before he gave up 8. Kershaw is just too weak to finish what he started.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by rats60

He was shelled. Dave Roberts was just smarter than Don Mattingly and got him out of the game before he gave up 8. Kershaw is just too weak to finish what he started.

eh..he coudl of pitched 6 innings and everyone would of thought it was a terriifc game and be taken out as well. How many starting pitchers in the playoffs this year have gone more than 6 months...everything is relative...if he was shelled than 90% of the rest of the aces were blaaaasted..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

4 HR. Some legend. 4.63 career post-season ERA as we speak. Yeah I know small sample size blah blah blah.

and add another W....how many starting pitchers in the playoffs this year have gone 6 + innings....he was fine. you are ok with the yankee starter in the twins getting blown as just a bad start..

stats dont matter when up 7 runs....rather have a 90% chance to give up 4 runs or less than a 50% chance to do that due to pitching around guys to keep your era lower in exchange for having more risk to give up the lead..........only 4 runs..one less its a quality start...you acting like he gave up 7 runs etc..

Another win...... one more win and he can be series mvp for that round if they gave those awards...(he would of won last years)

Its also yet another start when he left the game his team was winning.... hes on an amazing run.....livan hernandez won world series mvp and look at his era..... the whip was good for kershaw....1.263...you singling out one metric which isnt bad at all given the situation...

Plus its not like he gave up 4 runs and they were down 4-0......its when you give up the runs which is also important

[1952boyntoncollector]

duplicate

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

4 HR. Some legend. 4.63 career post-season ERA as we speak. Yeah I know small sample size blah blah blah.

And he got a W in that game easily even with the 4 homers......didnt need to do what he did in Game 1 of the World Series...another dodger victory... Dodgers have won 8 of his last 9 playoff starts.......i guess the 'blah blah blah' means something now..

He is a legend.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

And he got a W in that game easily even with the 4 homers......didnt need to do what he did in Game 1 of the World Series...another dodger victory... Dodgers have won 8 of his last 9 playoff starts.......i guess the 'blah blah blah' means something now..

He is a legend.

He pitched very well last night obviously and good for him. He did not pitch so well in the game he was taken deep 4 times. The logic of your claim that it's ok to give up 4 HR with a big lead is that it's not OK to give up 1 run in a scoreless game.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He pitched very well last night obviously and good for him. He did not pitch so well in the game he was taken deep 4 times. The logic of your claim that it's ok to give up 4 HR with a big lead is that it's not OK to give up 1 run in a scoreless game.

He also pitched well last year. There was one bad inning with the cardinals many years ago as you are aware.

and correct, i am ok with giving up 4 runs with a 7 run lead...its not like he was down 4-0...his team was up....better than walking people and preventing a big inning...i think they were all solo shots or close to it? His whip has been outstanding. Plus when you need a stud outing, he gives it.

His team has won 8 of his last 9 PLAYOFF starts....how is that not great. It cant be all dodgers offense. When your team wins that many games and you are closing on 90%, you have to figure he must know what he is doing. Stats arent everything, but even they are starting to get really good for him in terms of Whip and era is coming down. (era under 3 in this years playoffs thus far) You made a point it was 4.6 etc but 'short sample size, blah blah' just silly...

Your playoff era will never be like it is in the regular season because you dont get to pitch against 90 loss and more teams for a large chunk of your games.

Kershaw has also been pitching against many #1 or #1A starters in the playoffs yet his team is approaching a 90% winning percentage in their last 9 playoff games. The bad in the playoffs narrative is silly as well now. So if loses the next game his team only wins 80% of the last 10 Kershaw starts....yeah thats terrible

Really need to wait the playoffs out..to jump on him after his frst start n the playoffs that resulted in a 'win' no less, just strange....

[packs]

Wins are rarely an indicator of how well a person pitches. Felix Hernandez won the Cy Young with only 13 wins. ERA will tell the story and his ERA is objectively bad.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

Wins are rarely an indicator of how well a person pitches. Felix Hernandez won the Cy Young with only 13 wins. ERA will tell the story and his ERA is objectively bad.

Not getting team W's or individual 'W's i agree doesnt mean much if your stats are great. However if you ARE getting W's and team Ws, i think those W's matter more than just looking at stats. Your team is not going to win much when you are blasted in the first 3 innings and leave your start. In the event you get a lucky win or 2....it will be really hard to get 9 out of 10 team wins in your starts unless you are pitching winning baseball

Giving up 4 runs when your team is up 7 in the late innings is not much of a negative as the stats would say. Especially when you are winning 2-0 games as part of the streak etc.

Livan Hernandez won MVP of the world series with an above 5 era in the world series so era doesnt matter that much when you get Ws. You can have the best stats in the world, but if your team loses every one of your starts, you arent going to be MVP..... Era doesnt tell the whole story, plus Kershaw's era continues to go down and is under 3 in this years playoffs..

[mckinneyj]

Kershaw's regular season MO has been to dominate rather than to pitch merely well enough to win. His post season history does not mirror that. So, something has certainly differed for him in the post season (last night excepted). Perhaps he had tired by season end, perhaps the competition was better and more focused, or perhaps the pressure of having to carry a team was too great? is the pressure greater trying to get to the World Series as opposed to playing in the World Series? Dunno... but, he'll likely get another opportunity or two to further define his post-season personna.

[packs]

I just don't think that's true at all. In 2006 Randy Johnson went 17-11 for the Yankees, just two less wins than Johan Santana, who won Cy Young that year. But Randy had a 5.00 ERA. It didn't matter if the Yankees won his games. He was bad.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Not getting team W's or individual 'W's i agree doesnt mean much if your stats are great. However if you ARE getting W's and team Ws, i think those W's matter more than just looking at stats. Your team is not going to win much when you are blasted in the first 3 innings and leave your start. In the event you get a lucky win or 2....it will be really hard to get 9 out of 10 team wins in your starts unless you are pitching winning baseball

Giving up 4 runs when your team is up 7 in the late innings is not much of a negative as the stats would say. Especially when you are winning 2-0 games as part of the streak etc.

Livan Hernandez won MVP of the world series with an above 5 era in the world series so era doesnt matter that much when you get Ws. You can have the best stats in the world, but if your team loses every one of your starts, you arent going to be MVP..... Era doesnt tell the whole story, plus Kershaw's era continues to go down and is under 3 in this years playoffs..

Let’s face it. The only thing that can keep Kershaw from walking on water is a drought.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Not getting team W's or individual 'W's i agree doesnt mean much if your stats are great. However if you ARE getting W's and team Ws, i think those W's matter more than just looking at stats. Your team is not going to win much when you are blasted in the first 3 innings and leave your start. In the event you get a lucky win or 2....it will be really hard to get 9 out of 10 team wins in your starts unless you are pitching winning baseball

Giving up 4 runs when your team is up 7 in the late innings is not much of a negative as the stats would say. Especially when you are winning 2-0 games as part of the streak etc.

Livan Hernandez won MVP of the world series with an above 5 era in the world series so era doesnt matter that much when you get Ws. You can have the best stats in the world, but if your team loses every one of your starts, you arent going to be MVP..... Era doesnt tell the whole story, plus Kershaw's era continues to go down and is under 3 in this years playoffs..

Let’s face it. The only thing that can keep Kershaw from walking on water is a drought.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Not getting team W's or individual 'W's i agree doesnt mean much if your stats are great. However if you ARE getting W's and team Ws, i think those W's matter more than just looking at stats. Your team is not going to win much when you are blasted in the first 3 innings and leave your start. In the event you get a lucky win or 2....it will be really hard to get 9 out of 10 team wins in your starts unless you are pitching winning baseball

Giving up 4 runs when your team is up 7 in the late innings is not much of a negative as the stats would say. Especially when you are winning 2-0 games as part of the streak etc.

Livan Hernandez won MVP of the world series with an above 5 era in the world series so era doesnt matter that much when you get Ws. You can have the best stats in the world, but if your team loses every one of your starts, you arent going to be MVP..... Era doesnt tell the whole story, plus Kershaw's era continues to go down and is under 3 in this years playoffs..

this is total nonsense. we KNOW pitcher wins are a terrible way to judge performance and we KNOW that Livan's MVP win was stupid and a result of incompetent voting, stop using these things to push your narrative about Kershaw's playoff performance.

He has been up and down in the playoffs, but it's such a small sample size as to be pretty much pointless as a gauge. The people who claim he "chokes" are idiots and the people who try to pretend he's been amazing are also idiots.