"My relationship with JP Cohen and Memory Lane"----From Marshall Fogel.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Who CARES whether Marshall asked Leon to post for him or did it himself. It's in HIS NAME isn't it? Leon has explained it, hasn't he? Rip up the substance of what he said, fine, I disagree with it myself. But to focus on Marshall's inability to access the forum himself, or his preference not to, is truly ridiculous.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I didn't mean to cause a fuss Leon over your posting the letter and that's not how I meant it. It's just odd to me that Marshall can't figure out how to post to the forum himself. It's one thing to not know how to post a photo, but just typing out your thoughts and hitting the respond button doesn't really take much effort. IMO he does you a disservice by having you post for him.

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Posted By: Bob

Shane- I think you are being unfair. Those dealers who come here and post are held to the same standards as collectors and/or investors who post here. Barry Sloate, Steve Verkman, Scott Brockelman and many others dealers post here and are subject to the same scrutiny as anyone else.
This board and its posters represent a knowledgeable and dedicated part of the hobby, paticularly with respect to pre-war cards. The board is also important in doing whatever it can to protect the unwary collector from being fleeced or cheated, whether it is on ebay or an online auction, etc. I think it is a cheap shot to denigrate the posters here by criticizing them and yet championing the "feelings" of someone who has criminally defrauded, cheated and stolen money, including, if the article is proven to be true, the sick, elderly and infirm.
tbob

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Posted By: Elliot

I don't understand the big deal about Leon posting on behalf of somebody else. Who cares if Marshall Fogel can figure out how to post or not post in this forum. The opinions in the letter are his and not Leon's. He's entitled to his opinion whether or not the rest of us agree with it or not.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

It would be interesting to learn where Mr Cohen got the capital to start up Memory Lane Inc after having spent time in prison. Especially since it seems no restitution has ever been made to those he defrauded. If I knew the answer to that question then I could probably make a more informed decision about if I were ever to do business with Memory Lane in the future.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Elliot and the rest who are dwelling on my comments about Marshall's seeming ineptitude to post here - I understand they are Marshall's thoughts and not Leon's......but if on the 10th occasion of having to go through Leon to post your photo or thoughts one would think Leon would teach Marshall how to post here. It's not that big of a deal and I'm sorry I brought it up.

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

In a heated discussion such as the one that has been presented, it is important
to separate the facts from opinion and emotion.

1. Marshall Fogel is entitled to his opiinion and Leon did nothing wrong in
posting for Marshall. In fact. there was no real reason to post for Marshall
except to ensure that there was no way (without prior knowledge) for another
Board member to contact Marshall via e mail

2. Leon has posted several photos for us when we have had technical difficulty.
Whilst we doubt that the issues are technical (Marshall had to email the
information to Leon- so why not e mail to the Network 54 Board?

3. Whilst Marshall may be listed on the PSA web site--it does not say he
is an employee. He is a consultant. He published a book with PSA's help
and is an aggressive endorser of their services. He clearly earns a very, very
large income from his law practice. No way that PSA could begin to pay him
any singificant money. If one wants to verify this read the company's
Annual Meeting filing where they have to list their 5 highest paid employees.

The money earned by any of the highest paid employees is a fraction of
what any collector at Marshall's level would spend on cards in a given year

4. The decision whether or not to do business with Memory Lane is an
individual choice of each collector. However, that said, if one wants
to dig deep enough on the past of a cadre of legendary dealers - one might
find very, very few sources to acquire high grade cards. There have been
court cases against some of the very large firms and the findings would
not give the typical collector a "warm feeling."

5. Finally, if any collector can prove that a dealer regardless of who is
running up an item on its web site, that dealer should be brought to the
proper authorities. They are violating the law and at least will lose
their auction license, and perhap, they will be sent off to jail.

If everyone focuses on the past activities of some well known dealers
and does whaever they can to ensure that no dealer runs anyone up
on any item, the National in Cleveland will have to have a shuttle bus
to the nearest Federal prison.

We certainly are not defending anyway or attempting to defraud anyone.

We just want to make sure that everyone clearly presents the facts.

We also ask why doesn't every auction house insist on Honest Auto-Bid
which E Bay and REA Auctions currently use?

Best,

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

It seems that all of us have made our statements about this matter on the "interesting news" thread. Why didn't Mr. Fogel's remarks go there?

Frank

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Posted By: E, Daniel

I agree with you Peter, Leon's posting of the letter is irrelevant - just somehow feels weird...right?

And Shane, your assumption that JP feels awful about his past is a wonderful leap to make and asks us to think the best of him in the circumstances....I'd prefer to hear that from him. 15 years of defrauding people doesn't buy you automatic benefit of the doubt.

I for one could respect his ability to face the angry voices, regardless of whether or not I placed business with him in the future.

Daniel

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Frank, something to do with puffs of black or white smoke I suspect.

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Posted By: Steve M.

"Marshall Fogel is entitled to his opiinion and Leon did nothing wrong in posting for Marshall. In fact. there was no real reason to post for Marshallexcept to ensure that there was no way (without prior knowledge) for another Board member to contact Marshall via e mail"

Well excuse me!! This guy is so important he can't be bothered by the likes of us????

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Posted By: Bob

Bruce- I am a little surprised that you seem to be so forgiving of someone who defrauded, cheated, lied and stole money and went to prison based on your previous post a while back in which you exhibited a hang 'em high attitude toward criminals. I guess if that criminal has access to high grade cards, maybe they get a pass?
tbob

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Posted By: Cat

In regard to the restitution aspect, in the previous thread I believe that one of the links along with one Board member's (Peter Spaeth I believe) search clarified the issue. No restituion was paid (this interpretation is in extreme layman's terms ---> ) but if it is found that he misrepresented his then present financial position (hid money) certain aspects of his sentence would be reinstated (years of incarceration added). Therefore, if he had stacks of undeclared valuable cards hidden away, he would probably be in line for more prison time. I am not stating or implying he did this but simply restating the previous thread's discussion (including the links) on the matter.

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Posted By: shane leonard

I am not defending J.P. Cohen in court. He has definately done many wrong and should be pentalized by a federal court for this. It is not your or my responsibility in deciding his fate. We don't know the whole story and I don't blame him for not coming on here to defend himself. Heck, Marshall Fogal can't even chime in on his thoughts about JP without getting it from some of you.
As for other dealers here on the boards who posts (Leon, Scott, and Barry)information for the rest of us to read. Thank you for sharing with us your experiences and knowledge.

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Posted By: Cobby33

YAWN

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Cobby you're hilarious
I love dry funny that can be done in a word. Wish I had that skill

Daniel

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Posted By: B.C.Daniels

it was a form letter named for this specific purpose and case.

suffering brings wisdom! Interesting,scripture states wisdom brings suffering!


BcD

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Posted By: JimB

Buddhist "scripture" states that wisdom brings freedom from suffering.
JimB

Edited to add smiling face.

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Posted By: B.C.Daniels

MF made reference to the Greek authors (Classics)
not eastern or western theological leanings

BcD

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Posted By: David Smith

I do not know Mr. Fogel or what type of practice he has but does anyone know if Memory Lane or PSA are clients of his??

If so, then conflict of interest would come into play, I would think.

Also, isn't PSA part of a publicly held company? It would be interesting to know how much business Memory Lane provides directly to PSA by using their grading services and indirectly by having a majority of their graded cards in Memory Lane auctions.

As a lot of us know, share price is affected by price/earnings ratio and if PSA derives a nice revenue stream from Memory Lane both directly and indirectly, then the share price will remian high. If Fogel and/or J P Cohen own shares of what, CLCT, then it is in their own financial interest to keep the revenue stream up, even if they own only a few shares.

David

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Posted By: barrysloate

Leon- fair enough, and sorry if I made too strong a point about you posting for Marshall. I guess it doesn't matter but on some level it makes it seem as if you are endorsing his opinions, which you are not.

I know nothing at all about Mr. Cohen except what I read on this board. Here is where I have an issue: before he went to prison, he ran a sophisticated scheme that made him pretty wealthy, and if he was able to drop 50K in a night gambling, he must have done pretty well for himself. If there really were any thoughts of starting a new life, perhaps social work or working in a soup kitchen would have shown a little more contrition. Operating a million dollar baseball card auction business where there are so many opportunities to stray (again, unregulated business) seems to me like a continuation of the same materialistic lifestyle, with all the trappings and temptations of his previous one.

It would be like driving drunk, killing somebody while behind the wheel, going to prison for manslaughter, and then when you get out you decide to straighten out your life by opening a bar. Mr. Cohen is now free to do what he wants but he certainly is not a sympathetic figure.

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Posted By: steve f

Did that Marshal guy really pen, 'Unbridled enthusiasm'?!! The real disappointment in this post of alleged Senfeld fans is, How could this be missed?

*Now, who was the main character in Ms. Benes' book review?.. hmmm*

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Posted By: Josh Adams

Steve,

Billy Mumphry! his wide eyed optimism led to his downfall!


\

Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

This thread would be a good candidate for being locked and dropping from sight, me thinks.

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Posted By: Bill K

Maybe Marshall is a "cockeyed optimist" (again with the Seinfeld) in his feelings towards JP. I know neither Marshall or JP but he is certainly entitled to his opinion, no matter how other board members view him. Having read the posts the only thing is does for me is point me towards never-ever bidding on anything JP offers up for sale/auction. I don't frequent a certain shoe store outside Madison that led to "Shoegate" at the UW (even though they have a wider selection and lower priced) for the same reason. It's the only recourse I have to stand up against them. That, and bash The Shoebox every chance I get. Bad news travels five times faster than good....at least.

Bill

My personal collection - http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I'm very surprised that PSA censored the CU boards over the weekend (as pointed out by PSA arch-nemesis David Vargha) to remove any mention of JP's past. Why would PSA do such a kind (if unethical) thing for JP? Well, as we all know, Memory Lane is one of their major advertisers - and JP's sordid past reflects negatively on PSA. (Bruce--although you claim graded cards make up a relatively insignificant portion of CLCT's bottom line, why else would they censor the boards on this issue?) What is not surprising, at least to me, is that Marshall Fogel, who has a business relationship with PSA along with a gazillion dollars worth of cards tied up in PSA plastic, provided a ridiculously convoluted defense of JP, a major PSA advertiser. My advice for all would-be apologists for JP in the future: perhaps it might make sense to include the words "crime" and "accepts full responsibility for his criminal conduct" in your testimonies. Otherwise, you might find that people who read this board may laugh at you and consider you disingenuous.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

DELETED AS I MISUNDERSTOOD JEFF'S MESSAGE READ IT TOO FAST

Having now read it carefully, I think PSA's philosophy towards the message board is that they retain the right to censor threads that may reflect badly on them, for example in this instance having an authorized dealer with a criminal guilty plea. If I were a corporation with fiduciary duties to shareholders I guess that is their right although we might not like it. More interesting will be to see what, if anything, they do concerning Memory Lane's status. My understanding, although I cannot find it on the website, is that they have a morals clause in their authorized dealer agreements.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Peter, a morals clause? I think Barry Bonds has one of those in his contract as well.

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Posted By: barrysloate

My favorite line from that Seinfeld episode is Jerry's "what chunky was eating those Chunkies-Newman!!"

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

You are a defense lawyer, Barry Bonds therefore is innocent as of this moment, you know that LOL.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Oh yeah, forgot.

Innocent! He hasn't even been charged!!!!