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  #1  
Old 11-04-2006, 12:40 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Sovereign 460 backs are not really tough, but they are exclusive to the 48 cards in the 460-only Series.
Although, so far the Kleinow (Boston) and the Smith (Chi & Bos) cards from this Series have never been
seen with SOV 460 backs.

And, the much "tougher" CYCLE 460 back is available on many T206 cards in both the 350/460 Series
and the 460-only Series. Including the Kleinow and Smith noted here.

And, both these backs are available on the six Super Prints identified in Scot Reader's document.

So, you T206 guys.... tell us what SOV 460 and CYCLE 460 backs you have in your collections....?



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  #2  
Old 11-04-2006, 12:43 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: barrysloate

Ted- I assume you got all the Sovereign 460 from my group so I don't have to go through all of them again.

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  #3  
Old 11-04-2006, 12:56 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Scot Reader

Ted,

I think the only one I have ever owned is Tannehill (No "L") with Sov 460.

By the way, perusing Bill Brown's superset spreadsheet I noticed that Art Martineau has Cobb Red with a Sovereign 460 back--although since Art has been working on a complete T206 Tigers front/back set for years I seriously doubt you could get him to part with it.

Scot

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Old 11-04-2006, 01:13 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Scott T

One Cycle 460 (Vic Willis-Throwing) and two Sovereign 460 (Gandil and Schlei-Batting) for me.

Scott

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Old 11-04-2006, 01:24 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: joe

I have 1 Cycle 460 Jennings both hands.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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  #6  
Old 11-04-2006, 01:24 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Steve M.

Stovall Batting SOV460

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Old 11-04-2006, 01:40 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: T206Collector

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

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Old 11-04-2006, 02:00 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Brian E.

Cycle 460

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  #9  
Old 11-04-2006, 02:01 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Bill

Here is the list of Sovereign 460 backs that I have:

Chase (Portrait, Blue)
Crandall (Portrait, With Cap)
Devore
Duffy
Ford
Frill
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (Hands at Waist)
Lake (St. Louis, Ball in Hand)
Merkle (Throwing)
Murray (Portrait)
Oldring (Batting)
Pfeffer
Schaeffer (Washington)
Schlei (Portrait)
Schulte (Back View)
Sheckard (Glove Showing)
Smith (Brooklyn)
Tannehill (Tannehill on Front)
Wiltse (Portrait, With Cap)

My Cycle 460:

Bell (Pitching, Follow Thru)
Doolan (Batting)
Payne
Tinker (Bat off Shoulder)


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Old 11-04-2006, 02:05 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Ray Piskadlo

Sovereign 460 - only one I own is Howell (Hand on hip).
No Cycle 460s.

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  #11  
Old 11-04-2006, 02:16 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I do not have all your Sov 460 cards.....when it's convenient, can you list all of them,
and mail the list to me.

Thanks, TED Z

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  #12  
Old 11-04-2006, 02:45 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Larrie dean

I have two with Sovereign 460 backs --- Josh Devore and Rube Geyer.

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  #13  
Old 11-04-2006, 03:09 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: scott brockelman


Sovereign 460 Gandil &

Cycle 460 Donlin-Batting

Scott

(I may have a few more Sov. 460's in the for sale box, have to check)

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  #14  
Old 11-04-2006, 03:12 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Travis Anderson

Ted,

Sovereign 460
Pfeffer batting
Bridwell cap

Cycle 460
Ames hands in the air

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  #15  
Old 11-04-2006, 04:36 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: John S

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Old 11-04-2006, 04:44 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Drew

Ted

Cycle 460
Burch Throwing
Rucker Throwing
Street Catching

Sovereign 460
Bergen Catching
Hummel
Meyers Portrait
Schafer Washington



Drew

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  #17  
Old 11-04-2006, 05:02 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

And, here are my CYCLE 460......

Jennings (dancing)

Murray (port-cap)


And, my SOVEREIGN 460......

Chance (yellow port)

Matthewson (dk cap)

460-only SERIES......

Abbataccio....Ball....Bell....Berger....Bescher... .Bridwell

Camnitz....Camnitz (hds up)....Chance....Chase....Crandall

Doyle....Duffy....Ford....Frill....Geyer....Herzog ....Howell

Hummell....Lake....Latham....McGraw....Merkle....M eyers

Murray....Needham....Oldring....Overall....Payne.. ..Pfeffer

Schaefer....Schlei....Schlei(bat)....Schulte....Se ymour

Sheckard....Stovall....Tannehill....Wheat....Wilts e

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Old 11-04-2006, 05:14 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: anthony

sov 460 gandil

cycle 460 donlin batting

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Old 11-04-2006, 05:57 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: warshawlaw

Duffy

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Old 11-04-2006, 06:19 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Art M.

Ted,
More for your survey from my T206's...

CYCLE 460
Camnitz, above
Chase, blue portrait
Cobb, red portrait
Crawford, batting
Jennings, 1 hand
Jennings, 2 hands
Mullin, batting
O'Leary, hands on knees
Pfeffer
Willetts

SOVEREIGN 460
Cobb, red portrait
Doyle, portrait with cap
Ford
Hummel
Overall, waist
Pfeffer
Schlei, portrait

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Old 11-04-2006, 06:36 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: steve yawitz

Out of about 265 T206's, I have two Cycle 460's (Geyer and Schulte-back view) and one Sovereign 460 (another Geyer).

http://imageevent.com/yawie99

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  #22  
Old 11-04-2006, 06:59 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Lee

1 Cycle 460 - O'Leary Hands on Knees GAI 3.5

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  #23  
Old 11-04-2006, 08:09 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

WOW.....I would have never guessed that SOVEREIGN 460 cards are as tough as this Survey,
so far appears to be indicating.

Thanks guys....but, let's continue with your inputs.....I know there is a lot more of you T206
collectors out there on this Forum.

And, will we see a Kleinow (Boston) or Smith (Chi & Bos) card with a SOV 460 back ?

I'll buy the 1st person a drink of his/hers choice if they can produce either one of these 2 cards.
Now, I know these 2 cards exist with a CYCLE 460 back, so these do not get you a free drink.
Nevertheless, this front/back combination is quite scarce.

T-Rex TED

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Old 11-04-2006, 08:09 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Sov 460

McGraw glove at hip
Wheat

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  #25  
Old 11-04-2006, 08:50 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Mike Ernst

No Cycle 460 out of my 550 T-206.
Two Sovereign 460--Chance batting, and Geyer.

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  #26  
Old 11-04-2006, 08:57 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: barry arnold

Trex,
looks like a good time again!!!

out of 423 t206's:

cycle 460 street catching; ford

sovereign 460 Murray portrait; Schulte back view

all the best,

barry

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  #27  
Old 11-04-2006, 10:01 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Todd

Cycle 460:

Jennings (both hands)
Willett (Willetts)

Sovereign 460:

Bell (follow through)
Bridwell (with cap)
Camnitz (hands over head)
Devore
Needham
Tannehill (Tannehill)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wiltse (portrait w/ cap)

Thanks for all of your work on this!

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  #28  
Old 11-05-2006, 03:36 AM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Martin Neal

Sovereign 460 series
Wildfire Schulte back view
Hal Chase black hat


Cycle 460 series
Tom Downey batting

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  #29  
Old 11-05-2006, 05:07 AM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Jim Rivera

Ted
Here are mine

Cycle 460
Doyle cap
Duffy
Herzog Boston
Oldring bat
Reulbach
Schlei bat
Street catch
Bergen
Willis bat
Conroy bat
Frill

Sovereign 460
Bell follow through
Bridwell cap
Camnitz hands above head
Chase trophy
Doyle cap
Ford
Howell hands at waist
Needham
Payne
Tannehill
Wheat

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Old 11-05-2006, 08:39 AM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Dave

Ted,

I have two:

Matty Dark Cap and Bergen catching

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  #31  
Old 11-05-2006, 12:11 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

WelL guys....so far no big surprises. The CYCLE 460 cards are tracking to a certain degree
with the SOV 460. This is to be expected, as all of the 48 cards in the 460-only Series, I'm
sure were associated with CYCLE 460 Tobacco brand. Indeed, they both are Factory 25, VA.

It is interesting to note that Jennings (dancing) appears to be quite available with a CYCLE 460
back.....as 4 of them have been reported in this sampling, so far. Cobb, Donlin (bat), O'Leary,
and Street (catch) each have two samples.

Come on guys, there has to be many more of these cards out there on this Forum. ?

Thanks for your inputs.

T-Rex TED

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  #32  
Old 11-05-2006, 12:22 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Ted,
I have to go to a Wedding tonight, so I 'll post mine tomorrow.
Be well Brian

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Old 11-05-2006, 01:35 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: martindl


Zero Cycle 460

Three Sovereign 460 - Needham, Payne and Pfeffer (sounds like a law firm)

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Old 11-05-2006, 04:22 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Marc S.

I have a Magee batting Cycle 460

~ms

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Old 11-05-2006, 04:33 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Brian E.

Cycle 460

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Old 11-05-2006, 05:44 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Mike (18colt)

I have 1 Cycle 460 (Overall, pitching, hiding ball in glove) and 1 Sovereign 460 (Geyer). If I recall, the Cycle 460 I unintentionally bought (didn't know the series, just the Cycle part), and the Sovereign I bought on purpose because I didn't have one yet. By the way, that's out of 516 in my possession.

Mike (18colt)

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Old 11-05-2006, 06:06 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: leon

T206 Sovereign 460 Herzog
T206 Cycle 460 Geyer

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  #38  
Old 11-06-2006, 08:20 AM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

I am relaying a Forum "reader's" list that was emailed to me.....

CYCLE 460 cards.......

Baker
Brown, Chi shirt
Conroy, w/bat
Donlin, w/bat
Dyle, NY Nat'l, w/bat
Kleinow, Bos
Leach, bending over
Mullin, w/bat
Needham
Schulte, back view
Sheckard, glove showing
Smith, Happy
Willis, STL w/bat
Wiltse, port w/cap

SOV 460 cards......

Bridwell, w/cap
Camnitz, arm at side
Chase, dark cap
Cra, port, w/cap
Howell, hands at waist
Hummell
Schlei, batting
Wheat

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  #39  
Old 11-06-2006, 09:43 AM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Lee Behrens

OK, Here we go. I had not updated my list lately and found I had alot more than I thought.

Cycle 460:

Baker
Bridwell
Chance (Yellow)
Chase (trpohy)
Camnitz
Davis
Duffy
Donlin
Devore
Dougherty
Jordan
Joss
Kleinow (Boston)
Lake
Matty (BLK Cap)
McGraw (Port w/Cap)
Meyers (Port)
Murphy
Pfeister
Rucker
Smith, F (Chic & Bost)
Smith, Happy
Willis (Bat)
Wiltse (Port)

Edited to Add, Conroy Cycle 460

Sov 460:
Abbatichio
Camnitz
Crandall
Duffy
Hummel
Oldring
Schlei
Sheckard
Tannenhill
Wheat

If anyone has any Cycle 460 to trade I have some extra AB 460 backs and other cards for trade. (sorry Leon)

Lee

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Old 11-06-2006, 07:18 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Ed McCollum

Sovereign 460
"Happy" Smith, Brooklyn

Have two other Sovereigns with so much back damage, you can't tell what series, so wouldn't dare take a guess.

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  #41  
Old 11-09-2006, 05:40 AM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BRIAN W

Hey good Buddy.....I am anxious to see all your CYCLE & SOV 460 cards ?

And, all you other guys, too ?

Best Regards....TED Z

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Old 11-09-2006, 02:28 PM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: rob

Cycle 460:

Doolan batting
geyer
magee batting
schlei port

Soveregin 460:

crandall - cap
duffy

out of about 250 cards.

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  #43  
Old 11-10-2006, 04:55 AM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Brian Weisner


Hi Ted,
Gone to NY until Sunday, but will post by backs as soon as I can.

Be well Brian

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  #44  
Old 11-10-2006, 05:13 AM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: RayB

I have 1 Cycle 460

Bradley With Bat PSA 3

I have 2 Sovereign 460

Geyer PSA 3
Chase w/ Trophy PSA 2

RayB

I am inclusive in the B. Brown superset.

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  #45  
Old 11-14-2006, 01:04 AM
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Default T206 SURVEY....Sovereign & Cycle 460 backs
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Gee....I've been away vacationing in Greece and the Islands and visiting with my
relatives and you guys "dropped the ball" on this Survey......

How about some more inputs ?

TED Z

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  #46  
Old 03-26-2010, 08:43 PM
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Default
Bump to revive this thread. It appears to me there seems to be an equal amount of Sov and Cycle from this count and we never did hear from Brian Weisner.

I will put in an updated list in before the weekend for me.

Lee
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  #47  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:12 PM
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Default Only Sov 460 I have..........
Don't have any Cycle 460's..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Clayton's Cards 069.jpg (70.7 KB, 139 views)
File Type: jpg Clayton's Cards 070.jpg (69.5 KB, 138 views)
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  #48  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:44 PM
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Default very interesting clayton...
... that your sovereign 460 has epdg wet sheet transfer!
would this not indicate that the subjects with those two backs were printed simultaneously?
__________________
T206 COBB RED Wanted:
Blank Back, Broad Leaf, Drum, Hindu, & Piedmont 350, also
BAT ON: Old Mill, SC 350/25
BAT OFF: Cycle, Lenox, Piedmont 460/42, Uzit & Piedmont 350
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  #49  
Old 03-27-2010, 02:14 AM
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Default
Hi Mark-

Yes,it is very strange to me also.I showed this some months back asking about that,and peoples opinions varied,but as I recall no one was certain.

I thought it was a wet sheet transfer myself,but many people pointed out to me that wet sheet transfers are usually the same ghost image on the front as the tobacco brand advertised on the back (as you often see Tolstoi/Tolstoi).

I wish I knew the answer.When I bought this card,it was already slabbed.
Another board member mentioned it may have come in contact with a solvent,like kerosene.Although I respect his opinion,I don't know if I buy that one,for I think there would be more visible damage on the front and back of the card.

If anyone has any thoughts on this,I'd love to hear them.

Sincerely,Clayton
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  #50  
Old 03-27-2010, 07:56 AM
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Default 1 Sov 460
Sov 460
Needham
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