Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[Peter_Spaeth]

No one knows how all this will turn out of course, but it would not surprise me at all if Joe is able to stuff this the same way he was able to stuff WIWAG, Mexican holders, etc. He is not to be underestimated, and there are many factors on his side. Among those factors are allegiance, addiction, and indifference.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No one knows how all this will turn out of course, but it would not surprise me at all if Joe is able to stuff this the same way he was able to stuff WIWAG, Mexican holders, etc. He is not to be underestimated, and there are many factors on his side. Among those factors are allegiance, addiction, and indifference.

Agree they’re masters in marketing I think this will all blow over. Like you said we are just a few malcontents on a message board.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No one knows how all this will turn out of course, but it would not surprise me at all if Joe is able to stuff this the same way he was able to stuff WIWAG, Mexican holders, etc. He is not to be underestimated, and there are many factors on his side. Among those factors are allegiance, addiction, and indifference.

I could be wrong but I don't think Joe has much to do with it. For me it is the people with tons of cash wrapped up in those magic plastic holders, the card doctors(way more of those than you could ever imagine), and the dishonest dealers(also WAY more than you think) that rely on those magic plastic holders for their living.

So not to leave Beckett out just ask Joe Clemons how awesome they are.

SGC closed down is autograph department it was so bad.

Hit the major 3 to keep it somewhat fair.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Give credit where it's due, I say. Read the transcript of the July CU analyst call. It's brilliant.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Give credit where it's due, I say. Read the transcript of the July CU analyst call. It's brilliant.

I have always given credit to the marketing of PSA. They are second to none, hell they could sell poop sandwiches at Lobster Fest in Maine. Marketing will make you buy the sandwich but it takes all the others to get you to come back for another one.

The difference for me is that marketing can get you started or give you the occasional bump. To make it long term you need the others to keep it going.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have always given credit to the marketing of PSA. They are second to none, hell they could sell poop sandwiches at Lobster Fest in Maine. Marketing will make you buy the sandwich but it takes all the others to get you to come back for another one.

The difference for me is that marketing can get you started or give you the occasional bump. To make it long term you need the others to keep it going.

Long term there needs to be some correlation between what you are saying and what you are selling. If there isn't, people eventually catch on. The current outings by the Blowout folks is a relatively new phenomenon. I get it that registry collectors have every incentive to continue to prop up the market value of PSA cards. But what about the person who is new to the hobby and is thinking of spending 5 or 6 figures on a slabbed card, and who is aware of what is taking place? Do you think that person will not be concerned about the soundness of his/her investment? How confident can he/she be that the next outed card will not be the one he/she just plucked $100k for?

I know I am sounding like a broken record, and I acknowledge not much has yet happened in regard to the market values of high grade slabbed vintage cards in PSA slabs. But with the outings continuing on a daily basis, continued FBI investigations, and the simple fact that IMO a very high percentage of high grade vintage slabbed cards ARE altered, I simply don't see how an informed prudent person can not begin to wonder if what he/she is buying will hold its value. And as time goes on and new collectors are needed to support the current market pricing, I am at a loss to understand how a person can be so confident in the long-term viability of high grade PSA vintage cards.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Long term there needs to be some correlation between what you are saying and what you are selling. If there isn't, people eventually catch on. The current outings by the Blowout folks is a relatively new phenomenon. I get it that registry collectors have every incentive to continue to prop up the market value of PSA cards. But what about the person who is new to the hobby and is thinking of spending 5 or 6 figures on a slabbed card, and who is aware of what is taking place? Do you think that person will not be concerned about the soundness of his/her investment? How confident can he/she be that the next outed card will not be the one he/she just plucked $100k for?

I know I am sounding like a broken record, and I acknowledge not much has yet happened in regard to the market values of high grade slabbed vintage cards in PSA slabs. But with the outings continuing on a daily basis, continued FBI investigations, and the simple fact that IMO a very high percentage of high grade vintage slabbed cards ARE altered, I simply don't see how an informed prudent person can not begin to wonder if what he/she is buying will holds its value. And as time goes on and new collectors are needed to support the current market pricing, I am at a loss to understand how a person can be so confident in the long-term viability of high grade PSA vintage cards.

well said Corey...and you hit the nail on the head. It's one thing for current collectors to bury their heads in the sand to protect their "investments"...it's a whole different issue with newcomers looking to enter the hobby.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Long term there needs to be some correlation between what you are saying and what you are selling. If there isn't, people eventually catch on. The current outings by the Blowout folks is a relatively new phenomenon. I get it that registry collectors have every incentive to continue to prop up the market value of PSA cards. But what about the person who is new to the hobby and is thinking of spending 5 or 6 figures on a slabbed card, and who is aware of what is taking place? Do you think that person will not be concerned about the soundness of his/her investment? How confident can he/she be that the next outed card will not be the one he/she just plucked $100k for?

I know I am sounding like a broken record, and I acknowledge not much has yet happened in regard to the market values of high grade slabbed vintage cards in PSA slabs. But with the outings continuing on a daily basis, continued FBI investigations, and the simple fact that IMO a very high percentage of high grade vintage slabbed cards ARE altered, I simply don't see how an informed prudent person can not begin to wonder if what he/she is buying will holds its value. And as time goes on and new collectors are needed to support the current market pricing, I am at a loss to understand how a person can be so confident in the long-term viability of high grade PSA vintage cards.

Corey Logically I’m 100% in agreement with you sir.

To me this is all being worked out and smoothed over. PSA is keeping quiet admitting to nothing, everything is fine, in fact it’s great check our numbers. They know to many people make money off their product, auction houses, major dealers in their smr, eBay sellers, and the major altering groups wether connected or not. It’s only an opinion nothing will ever stick to PSA in terms of liability or accountability. They know they have ironclad Marketing and a Teflon Non stick liability strategy.

Keep the submission up they’re higher then ever. Their industry will survive always has and always will. This will be forgotten in a few years. After all, this board and blowout, we are just a few malcontents on a message board.

[perezfan]

The way they ignore, deny, deflect and place all blame on others has all the earmarks of a guilty company with something to hide.

Their corporate attorney's spin statement of "We are working with the FBI to get to the bottom of blah blah blah" really means "We are being investigated by the FBI, and are begrudgingly cooperating with their officials".

The disservice they are doing to collectors is immoral and shouldn't be legal.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Give credit where it's due, I say. Read the transcript of the July CU analyst call. It's brilliant.

If it comes in mid teens buy buy buy CLCT.....it’s been proven people always come back to them no matter what. Cult like following.

Stock is a trade no a investment in my mind.

[HRBAKER]

Lots and lots of people don't care who or what they are dealing with as long as they stay on the long end of the trough.
Happy Thanksgiving.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No one knows how all this will turn out of course, but it would not surprise me at all if Joe is able to stuff this the same way he was able to stuff WIWAG, Mexican holders, etc. He is not to be underestimated, and there are many factors on his side. Among those factors are allegiance, addiction, and indifference.

Don't forget lack of awareness of the problem. If 90% of the PSA collectors knew how bad it is, it would impact the market and PSA would have to step up and at least make some gesture of mitigating the problem. Historically, their motto has been, "Silence is golden" with an aggressive deletion of message board posts that raise awareness of the scandal.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Don't forget lack of awareness of the problem. If 90% of the PSA collectors knew how bad it is, it would impact the market and PSA would have to step up and at least make some gesture of mitigating the problem. Historically, their motto has been, "Silence is golden."

Also as said before..if no lawsuits...why should anything change...everyone seems fine enough or happy with the result....

people go on and on about nothing will change...yet if i say no lawsuits. people criticize this premise and say why do i bring it up over and over again..

yet people keep saying nothing will change over and over and over again....without any criticism..

we will say its early still but also i hearing, nothing will likely happen as well so its double talk..

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

we will say its early still but also i hearing, nothing will likely happen as well so its double talk..

Who is actually speaking to you about the criminal investigation or the lack of any civil litigation? Who has told you what will “likely happen”? Who are the source of what “i hearing”?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Who is actually speaking to you about the criminal investigation or the lack of any civil litigation? Who has told you what will “likely happen”? Who are the source of what “i hearing”?

Jake has connections, apparently.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If nothing else, a stunning statement of the power of the flip and the Registry, and the ability of PSA to print money for people.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=151

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If nothing else, a stunning statement of the power of the flip and the Registry, and the ability of PSA to print money for people.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=151

Peter these cards are my pride and Joy, the Look N See set. What these people did to these cards is disgusting and shameful. These are obvious Hack Trimmed Short Jobs!!
Worse off is Newport Beach doesn’t know their Ass from a Hole in the Ground when it comes to properly grading these cards !!
Never in 30 years of handling these cards have I ever seen borders this thin.
If PSA is this stupid which I think otherwise now then they have know business grading these.

[aconte]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If nothing else, a stunning statement of the power of the flip and the Registry, and the ability of PSA to print money for people.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=151

Mamma Mia! That's a lot of cannolis!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If nothing else, a stunning statement of the power of the flip and the Registry, and the ability of PSA to print money for people.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...&postcount=151

This one wont even make the Mexican Maraca Mt. Rushmore....damages under $10,000

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Jake has connections, apparently.

There have been no civil lawsuits. Please correct me if i am wrong. It was you that said 'in an unlikely event spit hits the fan etc' in regards to PSA and stock price falling due to what i assume would be issues with liability with the trimming/grading issues. Thus, thats where i came up with the term unlikely event about something negative impacting PSA through all of this......dont need connections.....

if you think its likely PSA stock will plummet due to the scandal, again pleased correct me if i am wrong on what you meant.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

There have been no civil lawsuits. Please correct me if i am wrong. It was you that said 'in an unlikely event spit hits the fan etc' in regards to PSA and stock price falling due to what i assume would be issues with liability with the trimming/grading issues. Thus, thats where i came up with the term unlikely event about something negative impacting PSA through all of this......dont need connections.....

if you think its likely PSA stock will plummet due to the scandal, again pleased correct me if i am wrong on what you meant.

So Peter is your source as to what will “likely” happen criminally and civilly? And otherwise your knowledge going forward is based on the lack of any present civil litigation as per mentioned on the board? Have you done any searching of lawsuits nationally in any online databases? Spoken to the FBI? Spoken to any lawyers representing targets or subjects in a criminal investigation? Guessing no on all counts.

[mark evans]

My hope would be that the pending FBI investigations will bear fruit with regard to card doctors and eBay sellers conspiring with those individuals. If so, I should think that successful prosecutions would have a significant positive effect on the hobby, even if PSA is able to avoid liability.

As to PSA, I defer to Peter, Jeff and the other lawyers who have had more practical experience with these issues than I had during my career. Assuming PSA was/is in fact ignorant of individual alterations, I assume one issue would be whether its argument that it provides only "opinions" will carry the day.