W517 o/c printing

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Posted By: Jeff J

I am having issues with certain cards in W517. Certain cards appear to me to have been issued far off center. I met with Mike Goldberg the other day at SGC and he said that if we cannot find anyone who owns a centered copy, they may be willing to change gradings on existing graded cards which do not reflect negatively due to centering.

I have found the following W517's to be a problem with centering:
10 Klein, 15 Alexander, 17 Quinn, 25 Critz, 26 Donahue, 27 Lazzeri, 36 Vance, 37 Cochrane.
Regardless of thw condition of corner wear or creasing, can anyone provide scans of these cards which are better centered than 65/35?

Not sure how to attach scans of mine but suffice to say mine are all consistantly o/c.

Please help?

Thanks Jeff J

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Posted By: DaveW

Hi,
You can look at
http://www.vintagecardtraders.org/virtual/w517/w517.html

to see examples of these cards. Several of the ones you mention
look pretty well centered. These are all hand cut from strips,
so the centering on at least 2 of the sides is up to the cutter.

- Dave

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Posted By: Glyn Parson

Jeff you may have misunderstood Michael when you had that conversation. It is not our policy to adjust centering standards. Meaning if a card doesnt come with centering that meets our standards for an 88 we will not grade any copy of that card an 88 or higher. This stance has been confirmed with the whole grading team. Jeff, sorry for the misunderstanding and feel free to give Michael a call to confirm this position.


Thank You for your interest in SGC,
Glyn Parson

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

The problem with the W517 set is that as they came in vertical strips of 3. The card in the middle of the strip is often found well centered (and are generally shorter top-to-bottom even when the dotted lines show on both) while the card on top and bottom are often found off-center as the top card will usually have a larger top border (see example of Haas) and the same with the bottom border of the bottom card in the strip. While it is possible to find these cards cenetered top to bottom, many are found the way described.

Haas: larger top border/from top of 3-card strip


Miller: larger bottom border/from bottom of 3-card strip


Cissell: small top & bottom borders/from middle of the 3-card strip


Then there are the cards that have the plays at top (which are my personal favorites in the set), all of which were at the top of the 3-card strip at one point or another. These were likely used in a promotion much like those with the color strip on back (all of which are from the bottom of the strip)
-Rhett

Play at top:



-Rhett

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Posted By: Jeff J

Glyn, Two things. One I should have clarified that I as only refering to the centering left to right and not top to bottom. The design of the dotted lines between the cards are what they are.
My real issue was that certain cards MAY possibly be all issued off center left to right. Those found most often (IMO) were mentioned in my first post.

As far as what Mike told me: He said if we can provide evidence that there may be a consistant problem for all cards we can locate and it cannot be disproved with SGC archives etc... then they may or would (not sure) be willing to adjust the grading not to reflect this type of consistant o/c problem on this specific cards where no contrary evidence is found.

I found this response by Mike to not only be fair but the right thing to do (if this is the case).

Said another way, there may be some cards in W517 which if found to all have the problem of o/c proven, then one with perfect corners and no other faults could be able to be re-graded to 90's from 80's. (my interpretation)

Jeff J

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Posted By: jim

I will be bringing a bunch of W517s to the Reading show on Sunday for SGC to review as in regard to numerically grading it vs giving it an AUTH grade. I can understand that it is not an easy issue to grade but on cards that they have returned to me as ungradeable due to size, are in fact bigger than other W517 cards that they have numerically graded for me. At the very least, SGC listens to what I have to say and not summarily dismiss my concerns.

I also like the game cards in the W517 series. Would be interested in hearing what players you have with the pieces; should every player in the set have at least one game piece? Thanks,
jim

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Posted By: Jeff J

Jim, What did SGC say to you about the W517's at the show. I couldn't go.

Jeff J

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Posted By: jim

As I expected, they were nothing but attentive and sincere in listening to my concerns/requests. They took about 10 W517 cards back for grading. They acknowledged the different size cuts involved, especially when there was an absence of dotted lines. As I showed them at the show, I have a fair amount SGC numerically graded W517s that don't have any lines showing. Will keep you posted on what grades come back.

I am paraphrasing and condensing as to the conversation I had with Glyn; so if I had mis-stated anything, please clarify Glyn!

All in all, just a great bunch of people to have working for us.

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Posted By: Jeff J

Jim,

Glad they listened. I would be very curious to see what you get back on this.
Are the ones you inquired about strictly concerning the centering top to bottom?

If so, I would like to know the measurements of ones they graded numerically that do not have any dotted lines... I have some which I may want question.

My origial post was regarding centering left to right...trying to figure out if certain cards qere all issued o/c left to right. I have noticed certain ones whcih appeared all that way in the 4-5 I have had of each.

Please let me know what you find out.

Many Thanks Jeff J