T206 Mitchell Miscut + McGraw with possible Factory Stamp?

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Posted By: Mark Anderson

I saw MVSNYC was asking for scans of T206 Miscuts in one of the threads that is now locked ("I don't care about Jim..."). I couldn't email him directly but thought I'd share two interesting cards from the Beckett T206 find that REA is auctioning. And for full disclosure, I do work for Beckett.

First, nothing too out of the ordinary as miscuts go, but it is a nice 'full name on top' miscut of Mike Mitchell.

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Next, though, is one I'd love to hear the board's input on. It is a John McGraw that is off center on the back and shows a partial factory-printed number on the bottom of the card. Rob Lifson, Andy Broome and myself believe the number on the bottom is likely the number "30" from the factory number. We can't recall having seen something like this before, in which an off-center card would have to have been located at the bottom of a sheet to show part of the margin printing.

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Anyone else have any like this, or other thoughts on the card? For those who aren't familiar with the story, this is an original 550-card T206 collection literally found in a shoebox, passed down for three generations, and including a Wagner. It had not seen the light of day in decades. If it helps, there were a handful of the cards that were obviously hand-cut examples, but the size suggests they may have been cut from sheets or strips. Those cards were encapsulated as Authentic-Altered. (BGS/BVG will slab cards as "Authentic" if they are untampered but the submitter chooses not to have a numerical grade, or "Authentic - Altered" if the cards show signs of tampering). Every card in the collection was a Sweet Cap back.

Mark

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Mark,
I have seen the "30" on the bottom of about 15-20 different Sweet Caps over the years. I assume that it is the factory or sheet number, but I don't have any evidence to support it.
The miscut's with the name at the top are much more common, as I have 40-50 myself. Be well Brian

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Posted By: Mark Anderson

Thanks for the response Brian. I knew the 'name on top' miscuts were fairly common (as far as T206 errors go). Do you specifically chase them down, or just happen to end up with a few during the course of trading?

I had not seen other "30" stamps, though, so I appreciate the verification that our thoughts appeared to be on track. And since we couldn't see the entire number, the confirmation that "30" is indeed the number. Would you happen to have a scan of one with a complete #30 showing?

I will say the one thing I was most hoping to see in the collection (other than the Wagner) was a few ghost prints or overprints, but no such luck. Would have seemed like a collection of that size might have had a chance at one.

Thank you Brian!
Mark

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Posted By: Kevin Saucier

MVSNYC was asking for scans of T206 Miscuts in one of the threads that is now locked

Here are a few.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Mark,
Run a search on the board and you find some info... otherwise it might take me several days to locate. Be well Brian


PS I seem to remember 1 card with the full 30, but most have a small fraction.

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Posted By: johnny

MARK!!!

NICE McGRAW!!!


i have a sheet #ed card also, i don't have a scan but i was excited to get it a few years ago from a friend...it's a sweet capaoral back, i think it's the top of a 20 or a 30 i can't remeber the player but i will check later, your right, i believe they were "sheet numbered, factory #ed)....my friend also has one, he found at a show unbeknowest to the seller, but they are super super rare!!

whos mcgraw???

i would love to buy it!!!

johnny

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Posted By: Matt

Below is a 2 name miscut I own that's got both names about as full as I've ever seen. The card is extra long which allows for both names.

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Posted By: Alan U

bought these on the bst

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Posted By: Jantz

From the BST board. Polar Bear back

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Posted By: J Hull

Very scarce different name at top and bottom cards.

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Posted By: Jantz

What are the backs on those 3 cards you posted? I'm just curious.

Thanks,
Jantz

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Posted By: steve yawitz

These are my two favorites:





http://imageevent.com/yawie99

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Posted By: J Hull

Jantz,

All are Piedmont 350.

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Posted By: robert a

Jamie,

Nice cards.

Here's one for t213:

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Posted By: ROBERT ADAMS JR

OMG ! That Lattimore is STUNNING !!

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Posted By: steve yawitz

Thanks! I recently sold off most of my T206's but it's one of the few non-St. Louisans that I'm keeping. I think more people asked about it than any other NFS card. I think I've seen a similar 4-in-1 Polar Bear posted on this board before - a very cool card that I would also love to own.

http://imageevent.com/yawie99

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

I wonder if T206's were printed in quadrants or something like that on the sheet. J. Hull's three cards with differing top/bottom names share orange backgrounds and it would not be unthinkable for a group of cards with say red backgrounds being printed below this group, then transitioning to orange midway up the sheet. If you have ever seen a 75 Topps sheet this is a noticeable thing, the grouping of similar colors on a sheet. Imagine a vertical grouping of cards say 5 high, then a transition to another grouping going up the sheet.

Or perhaps the top few rows of a T206 sheet could have been variable and those below were a set bunch of players.

Great stuff, love the scans.

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Posted By: Jantz

Good eye Dave. I'm curious if it has something to do with the backs, since from the examples that we've seen on this post (i.e.Sweet Caps. & Polar bear) have the proper player names top/bottom, yet JHull's cards are Piedmonts with different player's names. That was why I asked him about the three that he posted. I'm sure this topic has been brought up by members here on this board before, but for me, this is the first time I've seen this. I find it kinda interesting.


Jantz

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Posted By: Mark Anderson

Thanks for posting these guys - these are some great cards. Love the 4-in-1 back, and the full double names are all quite stunning, as well.

Johnny - the McGraw will be in Robert Edward's upcoming auction. Will likely be in a little lot with some other cards, but I believe Rob will be making note of the "30" print on the back so you should be able to locate the lot when the catalog is out.

JHall - very cool double names with different players. Definitely don't see those as much. Would love to see if anyone has miscuts of those same players (with the same backs) but with a duplicate name on top? Meaning, would all miscuts of those Atz, Hoblitzell, and Abbaticchio cards have the same name on top as yours? Chances of tracking down the same miscuts would likely take some time, but could prove interesting.

Mark

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I've seen only a few of them over the years and I know Johnny V is always looking for them,i knew he'd respond in this thread too!

So just for him participating here's the sheet number card(Bull Durham) and another back rarity i know he loves

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Unfortunately, we won't solve it.

I have a caramel card where the back is off center and the bottom of the next card is visible at the top of the card. Another one I have from the same set has a miscut back but that one has the cards bottom to bottom instead. Wouldn't surprise me if there were some deviations from a straight by player alignment on the cards.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: johnny

JOHNNY!!!

AWESOME!!!bul durham huh??!!!YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!

MARK,

THANKS!!!i will look for it....mines is an Ed Killian pitching....sweet cap 350 back, u just saw johnny d's dull durham....

I HAVE SEEN A TY COBB RED BACK PORT AS WELL.....!!!!i'm sure it was a sweet cap 350....seen them on no other back....

johnny

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Posted By: Jeff S.

Not a plug, but coincidently I'm listing this one on Ebay tonight. This appears to have a number off to the side, as opposed to the bottom. The card is of Bob Rhoades (Right Arm Extended) - any thoughts?

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Posted By: J Hull

Hi Mark.

Here are two I have which illustrate that at least with one subject the name at the top can be either way. Both are Piedmont 350 backs.

Jamie

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Posted By: J Hull

And here's one with interesting markings on the back.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

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Posted By: Jeff S.

Also listing this one tonight:

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Posted By: Mark Anderson

Jamie, I love that Engle/Phillippe miscut! And thank you for showing the other Engle. Definitely proves the sheet configuration is a head scratcher. Either the assortments were somewhat random, or... perhaps there were some double prints? If there was extra room on a sheet, maybe another handful of cards were doubled up, as Topps went on to do half a century later?


Also, for anyone interested, there is a site at www.beckett.com/t206 of the collection, and it will eventually have images of every card. I believe there are already a few hundred images up. No other errors that I recall, but makes for a nice Sweet Cap gallery!

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Posted By: dan mckee

That McGraw is cool! I have a Matty portrait with the 30 on the bottom.

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Posted By: Trae R.

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"There ain't much to being a ballplayer, if you're a ballplayer."
-Honus Wagner