August pickups

[Scott Garner]

Nice additions to your Bucco collection, Mike!

[71buc]

Thanks Scott!

[sayhey24]

I agree with Mark that Cano is not a certain Hall of Famer.
The great thing about evaluating modern players is that you don't just need statistics -- you also have the eye test. There are some players who without checking their stats are clear cut HOFers -- Jeter, Rivera, Pujols, Trout.
You watch them and you turn to your son and say -- that's a Hall of Famer. There are even some second tier HOFers who you probably thought that way about -- Jim Rice for example.
Living in New York and following Cano day in and day out, I don't think most people felt he was necessarily an all time great ( I think a lot of people felt he could have been, given the raw talent that was obviously there). He also was more often than not, disappointing when it counted -- in the post season.
All that said, his numbers are pretty impressive for a second baseman, he is an above average fielder and has maybe the best arm of any second baseman I've ever seen.
My guess is that he makes the Hall.

Greg

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

I agree with Mark that Cano is not a certain Hall of Famer.
The great thing about evaluating modern players is that you don't just need statistics -- you also have the eye test. There are some players who without checking their stats are clear cut HOFers -- Jeter, Rivera, Pujols, Trout.
You watch them and you turn to your son and say -- that's a Hall of Famer. There are even some second tier HOFers who you probably thought that way about -- Jim Rice for example.
Living in New York and following Cano day in and day out, I don't think most people felt he was necessarily an all time great ( I think a lot of people felt he could have been, given the raw talent that was obviously there). He also was more often than not, disappointing when it counted -- in the post season.
All that said, his numbers are pretty impressive for a second baseman, he is an above average fielder and has maybe the best arm of any second baseman I've ever seen.
My guess is that he makes the Hall.

Greg

Calling trout a hall of famer after 3 years. Lol

[Runscott]

Yeah, add Mattingly and Greenwell - clear-cut hof'ers at one point. Also Sam McDowell and Ron Guidry. Trout could just as easily end up flopping around on the bank like those guys.

Jeter and Riviera are clear-cut hof'ers - that was a tough call.

[sayhey24]

You're right Scott, should have added a half-sentence saying as long he stays healthy when referring to Trout.
I was trying to make the point that to be a Hall of Famer, you don't just need a certain set of numbers, you also should have been thought of as one when you played, not just after a breakdown of your final stats (Don Sutton is often argued about in those terms).

While they were both very good for a time, I never for one moment thought I was watching a Hall of Famer when watching Greenwell play or McDowell pitch -- can't imagine many other people did either.
Mattingly and Guidry are good examples of players who passed the eye test, but didn't have the longevity.

Greg

[Runscott]

I wouln't have mentioned them if they didn't pass my eye test.

[Runscott]

Sutton did not, nor did Phil Niekro, but we've argued hof-worthiness about as far as possible. No 2 people here will agree on that, nor, I suspect on their 'eye test' candidates. I also thought Frank Howard would make the hall, but he petered out like the aforementioned.

[sayhey24]

Good points all, Scott.
I can't imagine standing on the mound having to throw a pitch to Frank Howard.

Greg

[Runscott]

Greg, I was very fixated on baseball and baseball statistics during my primary 'card collecting' years (1965-69). There were some guys whose cards were 1st tier who did not make the HOF, and others who were 2nd tier who are now in the HOF. I understand how the HOF is a huge deal to the players, but to me it's basically meaningless, as it doesn't truly represent greatness in my opinion, and it certainly doesn't represent the players who were dominant during my childhood (and it should not), simply because many of them fizzled out, or like Maris, Dean Chance and Denny McClain, were great in our minds because of one huge year (I must have pulled a '65 Chance in one of my first packs).

Regarding cards and stats - those stats really helped keep us up-to-date with ALL the baseball teams. When you saw a name in the box-scores that you didn't have a card for, you tried to find the stats you were lacking - baseball magazines were plentiful, and the 'Beaumont Enterprise' had a Sunday baseball stats page that had hitting and pitching stats for every player in the major leagues who had a certain number of at bats (or innings pitched), down to a particular level of mediocrity, depending on how much room there was on the page. Nowadays I see guys on the leaderboards who I don't recognize, and it's kind of a shame.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Nice Cano bat Scott. How many do you have now? It’s been a while since I have added anything to my 1971 Bucs collection so I was pleased to pick these two items up. The first is a bullion and silk Championship patch given to the members of the team. These were sewn on the team issued travel blazers for the 1972 season. This one came in its original packaging. It is only the second such individual patch I have encountered. I don’t own the jacket it is only for pictured reference. The second item is an original Malcolm Emmons slide. The image was used for the October 10, 1970 issue of the Sporting News.

Thanks Mike. Love that patch - congratulations on that pick-up.

I have three and will avoid doing 'Cano' searches in future auctions;otherwise, I will soon have four, as they are affordable. I only caught this last one because of the 'auction ending soon' email Goldin sent out.

[perezfan]

If forced to bet, I'd say Cano gets in. But he definitely needs to do more in the next few years, including a successful playoff appearance or two. Seems like a "pipe dream" for anyone who follows the M's, but I don't think his HOF induction is a given, otherwise. Clutch hitting has not exactly been his "thing" since coming to the NW. Lots of weak groundouts to second with men in scoring position...

Two former Mets come to mind, who've not yet been mentioned in this discussion... Gooden and Strawberry were both looking like surefire HOFers early-mid career. When it comes to health, physical stamina, mental make-up and other intangibles, you just never know for certain.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by perezfan

If forced to bet, I'd say Cano gets in. But he definitely needs to do more in the next few years, including a successful playoff appearance or two. Seems like a "pipe dream" for anyone who follows the M's, but I don't think his HOF induction is a given, otherwise. Clutch hitting has not exactly been his "thing" since coming to the NW. Lots of weak groundouts to second with men in scoring position...

Two former Mets come to mind, who've not yet been mentioned in this discussion... Gooden and Strawberry were both looking like surefire HOFers early-mid career. When it comes to health, physical stamina, mental make-up and other intangibles, you just never know for certain.

Mark,
Good observations...
Rampant drug use and alcoholism never help a person's chances of making it into the HOF. Both Gooden and Strawberry got sucked into the NY fast lane and never achieved their massive potential, IMHO.

[sayhey24]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Greg, I was very fixated on baseball and baseball statistics during my primary 'card collecting' years (1965-69). There were some guys whose cards were 1st tier who did not make the HOF, and others who were 2nd tier who are now in the HOF. I understand how the HOF is a huge deal to the players, but to me it's basically meaningless, as it doesn't truly represent greatness in my opinion, and it certainly doesn't represent the players who were dominant during my childhood (and it should not), simply because many of them fizzled out, or like Maris, Dean Chance and Denny McClain, were great in our minds because of one huge year (I must have pulled a '65 Chance in one of my first packs).

Regarding cards and stats - those stats really helped keep us up-to-date with ALL the baseball teams. When you saw a name in the box-scores that you didn't have a card for, you tried to find the stats you were lacking - baseball magazines were plentiful, and the 'Beaumont Enterprise' had a Sunday baseball stats page that had hitting and pitching stats for every player in the major leagues who had a certain number of at bats (or innings pitched), down to a particular level of mediocrity, depending on how much room there was on the page. Nowadays I see guys on the leaderboards who I don't recognize, and it's kind of a shame.

It sounds like our childhoods were remarkably similar, just off by a few years --my card collecting peak was 1968-1975. I remember anxiously awaiting the arrival of the new baseball magazines each spring -- every year in the late 60s there would be a cover featuring the $100,000 Club with the handful of stars who were paid six figures.
And I too don't know many of today's names -- my son is always making fun of me for that.

Mark -- good point on those Mets. I'd add Keith Hernandez, who fell off a cliff at the end of his career and whose trangsgressions have kept him from serious consideration. Still he is probably the greatest defensive first baseman of all time, a heck of a hitter (although not a power hitter, which is what most people seem to want in a first baseman), and an MVP.

Greg

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

It sounds like our childhoods were remarkably similar, just off by a few years --my card collecting peak was 1968-1975. I remember anxiously awaiting the arrival of the new baseball magazines each spring -- every year in the late 60s there would be a cover featuring the $100,000 Club with the handful of stars who were paid six figures.
And I too don't know many of today's names -- my son is always making fun of me for that.

Mark -- good point on those Mets. I'd add Keith Hernandez, who fell off a cliff at the end of his career and whose trangsgressions have kept him from serious consideration. Still he is probably the greatest defensive first baseman of all time, a heck of a hitter (although not a power hitter, which is what most people seem to want in a first baseman), and an MVP.

Greg

Yeah, those NY Mets could PARTY like it was 1999!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by perezfan

If forced to bet, I'd say Cano gets in. But he definitely needs to do more in the next few years, including a successful playoff appearance or two. Seems like a "pipe dream" for anyone who follows the M's, but I don't think his HOF induction is a given, otherwise. Clutch hitting has not exactly been his "thing" since coming to the NW. Lots of weak groundouts to second with men in scoring position...

If the M's had signed Cruz prior to last season, things could have been very different, but the starters were worn out, so not sure they could have done much in the playoffs. The young prospects did not pan out last year (overall), other than the bullpen.

This year the prospects are also a bust, but Montero and Gutierrez are big surprises, as was Montgomery early on, and at least they finally got rid of Smoak, Ackley and Saunders (I liked all of them, but how long can you wait?). Poor performances out of Zunino, Cano, Elias and the bullpen (Rodney mainly) have killed them this year, plus Paxton and Iwakuma back on the DL, slow start by Walker. I don't think they are far off from making a run this year, but they need a bullpen and they have to dump the sub-.230 hitters and bench Rodney.

Yes, forgot about Strawberry and Gooden - definitely seemed like 'no miss' guys.

[phillyfan24]

Being a HUGE M.Schmidt fan, I can't believe I won this....

http://goldinauctions.com/1980_Mike_...-LOT16723.aspx

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by phillyfan24

Being a HUGE M.Schmidt fan, I can't believe I won this....

http://goldinauctions.com/1980_Mike_...-LOT16723.aspx

Good for you!

Mike and I both went to OU

To an earlier comment : Jeff Kent was a total redass, but not a defensive "butcher", at least with the Giants.

[kdixon]

Picked up this Zach Wheat page from a Spaulding guide. It is the image used on his T206 and T213 cards.

[eastonfalcon19]

Just picked up this early 90's Rickey Henderson GU bat.

[71buc]

Today I picked up a mint condition English Bull Terrier. This one has long been on my want list I'm thinking of naming him Murtaugh.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Today I picked up a mint condition English Bull Terrier. This one has long been on my want list I'm thinking of naming him Murtaugh.

Cute!! Nice pickup.

[Shoeless Moe]

Name him Willie...after Stargell, or maybe Moose, after Bob.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Name him Willie...after Stargell, or maybe Moose, after Bob.

+1 Perfect!

[mcgwirecom]

Spuds! One of my favorite dog types. Love it!

[ksfarmboy]

Mike, awesome patch. You know you kill me every time you post a pickup me being an Orioles fan😄.

[71buc]

Scott Randall and Clint thanks for the comments. The Bucs are poised to break my heart again. The pup will have a serious impact on my ability to post many pickups in the near future.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by 71buc

Scott Randall and Clint thanks for the comments. The Bucs are poised to break my heart again.

I think if your Bucs and the cubs are the WCs, the Buccos advance, easily. You won't have to see Bumgarner.

[ngrow9]

Technically from last month, but a couple new pieces for my Federal League collection:

[Joe_G.]

Neat 19th century photo (I believe) of Iron Mountain, MI band and baseball team. I believe we are looking at a bunch of iron miners at leisure. Can anyone help me date this based on equipment/instruments?

[vintagesportscollector]

Joe, nice photo. Based on the wired mask with small pads, and Webless glove with some padding, I would say 1890 on the photo - give or take a couple years.

[eastonfalcon19]

Picked this Jim Gilliam GU M117 bat from the flea market this morning. The bat measures about 34.5 inches. Has some bat rack marks and a good amount of ball marks. Does anybody know if Jim used a M117 model?

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by eastonfalcon19

Picked this Jim Gilliam GU M117 bat from the flea market this morning. The bat measures about 34.5 inches. Has some bat rack marks and a good amount of ball marks. Does anybody know if Jim used a M117 model?

What type of flea markets do you go to that they have game used bats every weekend. The only game used bat I've ever found at a flea market is a Jeff baker.

[sayhey24]

Hi Ron,

Terrific flea market find!
Here's a previous post from Mike Specht, who has the bat records:

"M117 batsare among the earliest Gilliam bats shipped. They are fiund only in 1951 (35" / 32 oz.(first signature model) , 1952 (34.5" / 33 oz and 35"/ 32 oz). and 1953 (34.5" / 32 oz);

Gilliam's first ML game was 4/14/53, so any 35 inch M117 would be a Minor League bat (pre-rookie), and a 34.5 inch M117 could be from his last order in 1952 or his first order in 1953....

Interestingly, Gilliam never ordered that model again after early 1953."

If you can post a better photo of the center label, we can try to see if that bat was made in the 1951-53 period.

Greg

[eastonfalcon19]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

What type of flea markets do you go to that they have game used bats every weekend. The only game used bat I've ever found at a flea market is a Jeff baker.

Brock, lol it's a lot of luck. Trust me there is more junk than anything but I manage to find some good bats here and there.

[eastonfalcon19]

Originally Posted by sayhey24

Hi Ron,

Terrific flea market find!
Here's a previous post from Mike Specht, who has the bat records:

"M117 batsare among the earliest Gilliam bats shipped. They are fiund only in 1951 (35" / 32 oz.(first signature model) , 1952 (34.5" / 33 oz and 35"/ 32 oz). and 1953 (34.5" / 32 oz);

Gilliam's first ML game was 4/14/53, so any 35 inch M117 would be a Minor League bat (pre-rookie), and a 34.5 inch M117 could be from his last order in 1952 or his first order in 1953....

Interestingly, Gilliam never ordered that model again after early 1953."

If you can post a better photo of the center label, we can try to see if that bat was made in the 1951-53 period.

Greg

Thanks Greg. Here is the picture of the center label. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Ron

[eastonfalcon19]

Got this in last week, I forgot to post it. I was looking to possibly get it restored. Has anybody ever had a picture like this restored? Any recommendations on companies that restore? I appreciate any help.

[sayhey24]

Hi Ron,

There are some very subtle flaws in the oval line itself of 1950s bats at 10 and 2 o'clock that can help determine specific years of 1950s bats, along with a couple of other things in the center oval. They are outlined in Vince Malta's LS reference book -- I just can't make them out in your photos.

Also, I think Vince and Mike Specht both explain that the more square the G in the word in Genuine on the barrel, the earlier in the 50s the bat was made. Your G is fairly round, more consistent with a later 50s bat.
These are such small nuances though, that it makes it hard to tell without examining the bat in person, and even then, it's still tough.

Greg

[MGHPro]

Like Greg said- that genuine appears to be late 50's. Nice bat tho
matt

[murphusa]

Originally Posted by eastonfalcon19

Got this in last week, I forgot to post it. I was looking to possibly get it restored. Has anybody ever had a picture like this restored? Any recommendations on companies that restore? I appreciate any help.

One like this or maybe the same sold at auction last week for $300 with a Mickey c one for $255

[sayhey24]

I've been working on my pinback collection lately.


Greg

[vintagesportscollector]

Love the Jennings pin, Greg. I am a fan of anything Hughie.

[JoeyFarino]

[Shoeless Moe]

Love that Robinson photo with the kids - thought of going after it - glad it went to a good home.

[JoeyFarino]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Love that Robinson photo with the kids - thought of going after it - glad it went to a good home.

Thanks paul! I was gonna let it go but decided to put in one last bid and got lucky. Its a great photo and one ive never seen before. Its crazy at that time with all the racism going on that this photo exists.

[Lordstan]

Nice pick ups Joey

[JoeyFarino]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Nice pick ups Joey

Thanks alot mark

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

Love the Jennings pin, Greg. I am a fan of anything Hughie.

+1 Me too, Greg. Cool pinback!

[71buc]

Absolutely love the Jennings pin but those Blass pins are awesome...I suppose you could say I'm more than a bit biased.

[sayhey24]

Thanks guys -- what I love about pinbacks are that they look great and don't take up much room! I've got a few more on my list I'm trying to hunt down right now.

Mike -- I have an extra of the Blass portrait pin -- shoot me a PM with your address and I will send it to you.

Greg