OT: Ebay Seller Strike

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Posted By: brian

Steve, that makes a lot of sense. Had a couple of small checks bounce after I had already left positive feedback. One of the deadbeats left me a malicious negative because I wouldn't ship the card anyway. Must have wanted a reward for sending me a bounced check? Now I wait until they clear.

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Posted By: 1880nonsports

is that I leave feedback on receipt of "good" funds. For each seller that might mean something different. If a person sends a check they should assume there is a waiting period. I never held anything for clearance unless it was over 1000. or so. These days one can call the bank as well. Once you know the funds have cleared the next step should be to ship the item and post the feedback.....

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

Once your feedback is at a certain level, then it only the negatives really matter.  2000 postivies, 3000 positvies, what's the difference..  I suppose if your over 10,000 then that would be impressive.

I have over 2k (100%) but I did get a negative once.  99% of my feedback is from purchases. I leave feedback several times a week. I don't pay attention to the sellers feedback unless its negative (only 1 in 8 plus years). I completely understand sellers not leaving feedback until afterwards and never think twice about it. 

Most of my feedback is bland, "nice card, thanks!"  If the card is exceptional and beyond what I expected I will note that in the my feedback.  If the card was shipped SLOWLY or POORLY, I will note that in the * ratings..  If I am disappointed in a card I will double check the listing and make sure I didn't miss something like 'small crease' etc.  Often I have. 

I have left negative feedback only once. I purchased a lot of cards that never showed up and a month laster the guy had the same lot back on eBay.. the monetary value was low so I didn't make much of it but to note the sellers ID and leave a neg..  I would not have left the negative if he had not put the same cards back up for auction..

 

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Posted By: Matt

Marty - "I would not have left the negative if he had not put the same cards back up for auction.."

You paid for a lot that you won, the seller kept your money, never sent the item, yet you would not have left him a negative had he not relisted the item? Why not? It would have been helpful for others to know this guy is a thief.

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Posted By: Bob

Keith Olbermann left me positive feedback a few years back on a card he won from me on ebay.

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

Matt,

At the time, I did not know he was a thief. I figured that it was LOST IN THE MAIL..  He had decent feedback.. 

When I saw the item relisted, I neg'ed him.  He neg'ed me in return.. Which is the ulitimate reason for the ebay feedback policy change. More often than not, buyers will not leave accurate and truthful feedback for fear of getting retalitory feedback.  I don't think this need feedback policy will hurt the GOOD HONEST Sellers as much as it will the DISHONEST Sellers.. JMO 

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Posted By: Rob Fouch

I saw the question was posed in this thread, but I don't see an answer. (May have missed it; fairly long thread and I don't want to reread the whole thing.)

Should the boycott of Ebay officially start today? If you list something today, it would end within the boycott week of Feb. 18-25. Or are people only not listing during the actual week? If it starts today, then really, it's a two-week boycott, right? To avoid having any listings run the week of Feb. 18-25, you wouldn't be able to list anything all this week and all of the following week.

Is anyone participating? I'm a regular seller, but only to make extra money to support my lavish lifestyle.
I could take two weeks off and it wouldn't hurt me too bad. But I'd prefer to take only one.

What's everyone else doing?
Thanks.
Rob

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Posted By: Robert {Bigb13}

With more than 13,000 items I guess Kit Young missed this thread. Or did he? Another good opportunity to get his name out ther. And of course with his super high prices. Rob

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Posted By: Bob

If you click only on "auctions" (which eliminates all the fixed price cards) you will see that the boycott is slowly taking its toll. The number of the cards in the pre-war section, for example, is greatly skewed by all the big sellers taking advantage of ebay's offer for a dump day a few days ago, but the little guy doesn't appear to be selling much stuff.

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Posted By: shelly jaffe

This is from cnn news.
money.cnn.com/2008/02/15/smbusiness/ebay_strike_update.fsb/index.htm?cnn=yes

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Posted By: Keyway

Whan I buy an item and receive it in the condition it was advertised I leave instant feedback. When I sell I wait until the buyer leaves feedback and then leave him an instant feedback. I see nothing wrong with that. As long as feedback is left for those who wish it, there should be no problem from either end of the sale. Frank

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Posted By: Frank B

The problem with some sellers is they want to "act last" in all transactions.
As far as game theory goes it's a great strategy if you can get away with it.
When I play hold-em heads-up I'd like to get the button each and every hand
but I can't seem to get my opponents to go for that deal. It's not either sides
fault - it's just a weakness of the system. When a seller leaves feedback soon
after I pay him he goes on my saved sellers with a note stating that this guy
doesn't play games. Each week I look up those listings first and then move on
to the general searches. I just prefer to do buy from those types if given the
choice.

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Posted By: Phil

The way that I look at the feedback system is simple: I am primarily a buyer, but have sold in the past and plan to sell more in the future.

My method is this:

As a Seller: If the person buying my item sends me money in a timely manner, I leave feedback immediately. He has lived up to his side of the transaction.

As a Buyer: I leave feedback only after the seller leaves feedback for me and if I am satisfied with the seller, shipping time, etc.

I don't like when sellers will only give you feedback after you leave them positive feedback first. Heck, I lived up to my side of the bargain for paying you quickly. If I pay you quickly and you take 3 weeks to send me an item, I would expect that I would get positive feedback and the seller may get negative feedback.

I have never left negative feedback for anyone. I have come close a few times, but figured what was the sense, that will just make that person send retaliatory negatives to me.

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Posted By: Bob

When I sell, I leave immediate positive feedback upon receipt of payment. period. I hope the buyer reciprocates upon receipt of the item, many do, some don't. As a buyer, once an item is received I leave immediate feedback. Period.
Now, on to the ebay boycott. It is discouraging to see a couple of guys from this board have chosen to list items today on ebay. You know who you are. Your items will very likely not receive anywhere near the bids they would if you had waited until the 26th to list. Oh well, to each his own. I will not lisy anything on ebay this week. This is not just a prewar sports card issue, it is an issue that is sweeping all ebay and everything from audiobboks to children's clothes to motorcycles to women's jewelry, etc. Hopefully it will make a difference and ebay will drop the new policies which hurt non-power sellers and the other stupid changes like making search defaults "best match" instead of "most recently listed" or "ending today" which favor the big sellers. Liberte, fraternite, egalite! "We must all hang together or we will surely all hang separately" (Sam Adams?)

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Posted By: Rick McQuillan

I know that I will reduce the number of bids on my items if I follow through with my plan, but I am thinking seriously about looking at the feedback of everyone who bids on my items. Anyone bidder with less than 20 feedbacks or less than 99% positives will have their bid cancelled.

Rick

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Posted By: Jim VB

"We must all hang together or we will surely all hang separately" (Ben Franklin)


But Sam Adams is one of my favorite beers!

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Posted By: Richard S. Simon

I have not sold last week and I will not be selling this week but the strike dates were mucked up and unclear from the start.
If a strike was called for Feb 18-25, common sense dictates that for that week you don't list items.
That is the way I assumed the strike would run. Posts on this thread then began to speculate about dates and clouded the real situation. Nobody really clarified it.
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: Matt

"I know that I will reduce the number of bids on my items if I follow through with my plan, but I am thinking seriously about looking at the feedback of everyone who bids on my items. Anyone bidder with less than 20 feedbacks or less than 99% positives will have their bid cancelled.

Rick"

Rick - if a buyer gets a retaliatory negative because he reported a bad seller, you would cancel his bid? The idea of just looking at the feedback % without inspecting the actual reason for the neg is shortsighted.

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Posted By: Dave F

I for one don't think ebay is going to even recognize there is a "seller's strike" to begin with. I don't have any plans to list anything this week as it is, but am curious those of you that are adament about not listing, are you also just as adament about not buying? Seems like if your dead set on proving something to ebay that not much will even look different unless most folks stop buying as well... I for one won't be practicing that by the way.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I have lots closing Wednesday but they were listed before the strike started. And if I choose not to list this week, my lots wouldn't end until Feb 27 anyway, which is after the strike ends. So I'm not sure if it's okay to list this week.

I think this strike will have about as much effect as an elephant getting a mosquito bite. Ebay won't even know the difference. That's why I'm thinking of just going ahead with business (but haven't decided yet for sure).

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Posted By: Richard S. Simon

A point should be made here, the strike has gotten ebay some negative publicity. The strike has generated stories on the web, which all mention discontented sellers.
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: JK

Barry,

I think that the point of the strike is to not list any items during the dates of the strike. Obviously items listed last week will end this week - that cannot be avoided. However, if everyone (and I know that isnt going to happen either) refused to sell for one week (ie list) then the next week, when those items close, ebay would have no sales.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Thanks Josh for the clarification.

I support the idea that ebay is not looking out for the little guy, and I don't like the changes either, but I think even a major strike would affect a negligible portion of their sales, and they will be back to normal very quickly. I do not think it would have the intended result.

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Posted By: Rob Fouch

My understanding from the people who responded to my query last week was that we weren't supposed to list anything all LAST week so nothing would be ending the actual week of the strike (this week) -- when all the striking buyers would not be bidding.

So technically, I could list all this week, because it will be ending outside of the dates of the strike and bidders could presumably bid.

Anyway, that's what I did. I didn't list all last week. Not sure if I'll list this week. Though two weeks of not making a little extra money would kind of stink. I don't do this for a living, but I use the money I make on ebay to help pay the bills and to fund my collecting.

Rob

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Posted By: Rick

The Idea of this stike is not only to not sell anything during the week of the strike but also not to list, look, search, or even log in. People with stores have been putting them in Vacation mode for the week. People with current listings have been pulling all the listings. This is more important than a lot of people realize. Follow this thread http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?forumID=143&threadID=1000636290 There are currently 14,000 posts to this thread read a little of it.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Can anyone imagine vintage cards selling for fifty cents on the dollar because nobody is looking? I doubt it...I think there will be an abundance of people scouring for good deals.

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Posted By: Phil

When everyone who joins the strike this week and does not list anything then lists twice as much as usual next week, how does that have any effect on eBay? A strike is meant to be waged until the body that is to be affected makes changes. A strike is meant to go on until there is change or considerations. A strike is not to have a pre-determined end date.

When everyone lists twice as much stuff next week, eBay will still get their regular fees and commissions, it just will come one week later.

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Thank you, Phil.

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Posted By: James Gallo

Phil

I agree with what you say in principle, however in this case I don't think it will play out exactly like that.

There is no way I would be able to double my output with taking a week off.

I honestly plan to do almost no ebay stuff this week so there is no way I will have double the auctions next week.

I agree that a pre-determined end time is bad, but there isn't too much you can do when so many people make their living off ebay sales.

The fact of the matter is that this has gotten A LOT of NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL attention and ebay knows they have pissed a lot of people off. I think that is an accomplishment even if it may not result in any changes.

Often people protest knowing nothing will happen, but that doesn't mean there protest wasn't right or just and that they shouldn't be heard.

It has been made very public that a lot of people aren't happy with ebay what happens now is anyone's guess...

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: Anonymous

I agree. No way I'll be able to double my listings the next week. It's all I can do to make time to put up 15-20 items a week because I work a full-time job. I do this just to make some extra money. And in the process I make a little money (more and more, it seems) for ebay.
Well, they won't make any money off of me for this week -- probably two weeks. And if there are enough sellers out there like me (and I suspect there are), they'll feel it -- if only a little.
Better than doing nothing, imo.
Rob

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Posted By: Matt

Just to further the point, even if the sellers were to list double the following week, ebay would still feel it. Any transaction based business model is predicated on the normal flow of money. Disrupt that normal flow and the business will feel it. To put it into very simple terms; imagine your paycheck doesn't come this month but you'll get 2 next month. However, your mortgage and all your bills still need to be paid this month. See the problem?

Bottom line is, since an ending date was pre-determined, ebay isn't going to get incredibly nervous about this. However, it should shake them up a bit.

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Posted By: Phil

I guess my biggest hangup was with the term "strike" as opposed to "protest" or something along those lines. Again, a strike does not have an end date. Some guys will not be able to list double the amount of items next week, but many will...wait and see. And, a strike needs full participation which of course is impossible on eBay, especially those that make their living off of eBay.

To the point of hurting eBay with the example of if you don't get your paycheck this month, but get 2 next month.....If this so called "strike" was a month long strike, then you could use this argument. But it is only a week. So are you trying to tell me that if you get paid weekly, and don't get a check this week, but get 2 paychecks next week that that would have a big impact on you?

An effective strike, like the recent writer's strike, has to have full participation and must be waged until there is a satisfactory compromise.

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Posted By: Matt

Phil: "To the point of hurting eBay with the example of if you don't get your paycheck this month, but get 2 next month.....If this so called "strike" was a month long strike, then you could use this argument. But it is only a week. So are you trying to tell me that if you get paid weekly, and don't get a check this week, but get 2 paychecks next week that that would have a big impact on you?"

My analogy was greatly simplified; it shows how a volume transaction based model would affect you or I. Obviously, we don't count on millions of monthly transactions to meet our needs and hence 1 week wouldn't affect us. However, it would effect ebay.

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Posted By: Eric B

Nope. They won't feel a thing. They have $2.7 Billion in cash reserves and have only $400 million in monthly expenses including Cost of Sales and SG&A. Even if these were all fixed costs, they could easily go 6 months without revenue.

Edited to mention those are Dec 2006 numbers. Cash on hand is $4 Billion as of Sep 2007. But costs are higher

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Posted By: Matt

Eric - did not know that. That changes things.

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Posted By: Phil

Matt, I know what you are trying to say, but I don't agree. Your argument would work if eBay lost those listings permanently. My guess is that you will see a huge bump in listings next week (maybe not double), but that will all even out in a month or 2 at the most. If this would hurt their annual numbers then I could agree with you, but it won't. In the end, eBay will probably surpass their annual listings this year.

Just a miniscule bump in the road.

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Posted By: Joann

A few thoughts on the effectiveness of the strike ...


... at minimum, it's breakeven or better. It will either have some intended effect, or no intended effect, but it can't hurt. Point in favor.


... from ebay's side, it is breakeven or less wrt revenues (in a simple world). Best case they make the same, just distributed differently. Most likely they make less because some sales will not be made up later. Very unlikely that they will somehow end up ahead. Point in favor.


... A disruption of the revenue stream will be felt. Permanently? No. To the point that it really hurts? Probably not. But nonetheless ebay is staffed to handle a certain number of transactions per hour, day, week and month. Although a disruption of one week won't make them miss rent, it will probably be felt somewhere in the organization - maybe even if only that they have to pay some OT to catch up the next week. So maybe the right timing for this next time would be just before the holiday season so they'd have to pay double-time or whatever. Disruption of flow def a point in favor.


... undetermined cessation point. That, plus the widespread announcement beforehand, gives ebay the ability to gear up for it and minimize effect. I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't done some minor schedule tweaking to account for the low and then high. But I'm not sure how long something could go on indefinitely just because it's so hard to coordinate and get consistent info out to the many sellers. Point against.


... as a symbolic gesture, I believe it has worked. It definitely has ebay's attention and has generated some negative publicity. Also, as far as I know this is the first concerted effort by any group of ebay interested parties. Who knows what the next one will bring? How important is it that sellers may, for the first time, feel like they are not just out there grumbling on their own? It's a first, and the ripple effects among ebay customers is yet unknown (even if ebay does not overtly respond to this particular event). Strong point in favor.


Now we just have to wait for the dust to settle so we can start the buyer's strike. Now that would get their attention. Issues? Use of retaliatory negs in the feedback system and inability to get them removed (well, that's for both sides). Bidder ID's hidden over $200. Changes to default search results. Anything else?

J

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Posted By: Richard Dwyer

http://businessshrink.biz/psychologyofbusiness/2008/02/19/ebay-sellers-boycott-gains-traction-competing-sites-grow/

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Posted By: Scott Levy

For what it's worth. Looks like the strike is having an impact at least on T206 cards. Typically I see a little over 2000 listing or so. Today it looks like around 1500.

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Posted By: Marty

The Excel file did not copy well. The just is that the number on the left was last Friday and the number to the right is today. Minors Fri. 1759, today 1233 listings. Baseball, minors and MLB, racing, soccor and tennis took the biggest hits. If the lower listings are from the boycott and the sellers do not increase their listing in the future to make up for the lost listings, then eBay will lose some. It will also lower the sellers incomes who did sell during this time. I did not take not of prior to the dump day, or listings in anything else than cards.

2/15/20072/20/2007
Baseball-MinorsBaseball-Minors
-1759-1233
Baseball-MLBBaseball-MLB
-197096-181369
Baseball-Negro LeaguesBaseball-Negro Leagues
-68-70
Basketball-NBABasketball-NBA
-50967-48209
Basketball-WNBABasketball-WNBA
-310-243
BoxingBoxing
-569-531
College Trading CardsCollege Trading Cards
-1054-1023
etoppsetopps
-2127-2128
Football-CFL (Canadian)Football-CFL (Canadian)
-267-313
Football-NFLFootball-NFL
-103260-98365
Golf-LPGAGolf-LPGA
-119-123
Golf-PGAGolf-PGA
-2303-2137
Golf-OtherGolf-Other
-26-54
Hockey-MinorsHockey-Minors
-697-730
Hockey-NHLHockey-NHL
-65962-64422
OlympicsOlympics
-191-198
Racing-Indy RacingRacing-Indy Racing
-174-154
Racing-NASCARRacing-NASCAR
-7163-6311
Racing-OtherRacing-Other
-358-302
SoccerSoccer
-1113-886
TennisTennis
-742-658
Wrestling-WWEWrestling-WWE
-1020-931
Storage, Display SuppliesStorage, Display Supplies
-1843-1661
OtherOther
(2083-1927

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Posted By: Dan

I thought I would pass this along. Our local TV Station ran a report about the EBAY Strike. The report talked about the number of strike adds that our currently running on U-tube. They interviewed a couple of full time ebay sellers and asked about the reasons for the strike. I think our local picked up the story from one of the National Networks. Anyway just wanted to pass on the word that it isn't just in our little part of the collecting world that is having the strike that the word is being spread along all of Ebay's categories.

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Posted By: Scott Levy

Could make a hilarious musical video about the stuff we buy on ebay.

enjoy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYokLWfqbaU&NR=1

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Posted By: Steve

...while waiting out the Strike.

Make personal videos easily, using pictures of those you love (or hate). Try not laughing at these, I dare yas.

Click the "Sendables" category, then the "Starring You" selections.

http://www.jibjab.com/>