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Old 04-16-2018, 08:06 AM
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Default A Large Amount of Fraud in Our Hobby Today- Daniel Desmond aka Daniel Paul

If anyone doesn't know there has been a lot of counterfeit/fake T213-1 Coupon cards going around for at least the last year or two. They are skinned T206s with inkjet printed backs that are scary good. There are also a lot of rare back T206s done the same way...Lenox, CB etc..... So far no authorities will help, FBI, local or any others. They say they can't get their prosecutors to take the low hanging fruit we gave them. At any rate this seller looks to be someone who probably got swindled and is now selling them. The MO was they came out of a scrapbook. Beckett was the first to discover them as I brought some examples to them to look at. SGC and PSA are aware of them too. Most (or all) of the fraud will be raw cards. It is allegedly the author of the restoration article that is doing it, Daniel Desmond. He has been in California but we believe he might have aliases and addresses in other places. Caveat Emptor!! (I should add that one of our members is out several thousand dollars due to this fraud)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Lenox-...oAAOSwqHBa08qy

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Last edited by Leon; 04-16-2018 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:34 AM
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in the ebay link you posted, Leon...the front looks fake too?
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Old 04-16-2018, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
in the ebay link you posted, Leon...the front looks fake too?
Can't say for sure. I have handled approximately 27 of the fake/counterfeits and none had fake fronts. All were skinned T206s with advanced inkjet printed backs. I am not an expert but couldn't tell what was done to them until it was pointed out to me. Some other very seasoned collectors also couldn't tell.
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:09 AM
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Thanks for the post, Leon. Was keen on bidding until I saw the update.
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:13 AM
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I purchased two about six months ago and thanks to this board, returned one immediately.
I still have the other and didn't pay a huge price so it's a nice fantasy piece.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:41 AM
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Thanks for the heads up Leon!
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:18 AM
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It is amazing who all posts in these threads. Most frauds are a slam dunkin to expose, while others are more difficult ...


Mark Medlin
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You got any of them n series non sport and boxing in there?
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdmtx View Post
It is amazing who all posts in these threads. Most frauds are a slam dunkin to expose, while others are more difficult ...


Mark Medlin
Who all?
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Who all?
Since my post seems a little vague, it was pointed at mr Dunkin.


Mark Medlin
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdmtx View Post
Since my post seems a little vague, it was pointed at mr Dunkin.
Mark Medlin
I had two messages from him. We'll see how it goes...
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Old 04-16-2018, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdunkin1 View Post
Thanks for the post, Leon. Was keen on bidding until I saw the update.
Irony.
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:32 PM
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I purchased this T206 Hart from Tony on the b/s/t around 6/17/17, got it in the mail the following week around 6/23/17.

Within a week, I included the card as part of trade of T206s to Daniel for a T213-1.
Another net54 member (David F.) later purchased this SAME EXACT card (I'm assuming from Daniel) in late July or early August, except by this time the back was skinned and printed with a more expensive T213-1 back to it. David posted pictures on network54.com forum here.

Below are the before and after scans of the Frankenstein Hart ... no more than a 1 month turnaround for Daniel to turn a $30 T206 into a couple hundred T213-1. This isn't restoration or soaking or touching up a corner. This is alteration/forgery/fake with intent to deceive.
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File Type: jpg Hart_Comparison.jpg (48.5 KB, 1018 views)
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Last edited by tiger8mush; 04-16-2018 at 05:37 PM. Reason: clarified dates
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2018, 05:37 PM
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Probably child's play for a man with his talents.
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Old 04-16-2018, 05:45 PM
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Couple more examples of his work ...
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File Type: jpg Marquard_(3121).jpg (48.9 KB, 1006 views)
File Type: jpg Chase_CB_200_(3120).jpg (49.8 KB, 1009 views)
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  #15  
Old 04-16-2018, 09:30 PM
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Collecting raw, beater cards, I thought I was fairly safe from garbage like this.
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  #16  
Old 04-17-2018, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mdmtx View Post
It is amazing who all posts in these threads. Most frauds are a slam dunkin to expose, while others are more difficult ...


Mark Medlin
Hey Mark, I'm curious: you posted this an hour before NJ started his thread about his scam. How did you know?
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Old 04-17-2018, 06:30 AM
t206kid t206kid is offline
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The story broke in Tobacco Row (the Facebook group) a weekish ago. He sent that long piece to one of the admins and the guy who did the detective work to put it all together.

Last edited by t206kid; 04-17-2018 at 06:30 AM.
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  #18  
Old 04-17-2018, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t206kid View Post
The story broke in Tobacco Row (the Facebook group) a weekish ago. He sent that long piece to one of the admins and the guy who did the detective work to put it all together.
I knew because of this ^^
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  #19  
Old 04-22-2018, 04:10 PM
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Those are actually my cards on eBay. Jobu from here reached out to me and let me know about this thread. Unfortunately eBay won't let me cancel the listings this close to the end time, so I'll have to reach out to the buyers after the fact. I assumed these were in too bad of condition to be fake, show's what I know ...
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  #20  
Old 04-22-2018, 05:43 PM
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I have actually met Daniel Desmond when I was in Socal. He makes up the biggest fake stories and tries to pawn his cards off as real. Last I knew, he was in Cathedral City California. Definitely would not believe anything he says or does as he is well known for counterfeit cards. I stand by my comments Leon as I got burned on a fake Ruth I got from him.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:36 PM
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Leon I'm just thinking out loud here, but would a gram scale be able to pick up a counterfeit or skinned T206? perhaps even a black light or digital microscope? What are the telltale signs to look for? Thanks
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:28 PM
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A good magnifier and knowing what to look at as far as the printing and edge quality goes will detect most of them.

Blacklight will pick up a lot of them too.

After that it gets a bit tricky.

I don't have the number handy, but at one point I measured the thickness of several T206s and they were all the same. Within reason, I didn't look beyond thousandths of an inch, and given the tech of the day I'd say +/- .001 is reasonable. If I remember it correctly there was no difference in any of the ones I measured.

Just seeing a lot of originals up close is probably the biggest thing. After a certain point, the ones that are "wrong" will be more obvious.
That's also something I don't have much advice on. Most collectors who started a long time ago have probably held more T206s and other prewar cards than most newer dealers have seen. One show I went to there were probably 5-6 dealers who had between 50 and 100 in stacks. Not even a plastic holder. That just doesn't happen today.
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  #23  
Old 04-24-2018, 04:53 PM
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The problem with these cards is that there is extra paper and glue on there, which would totally throw off the weight.
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Old 04-24-2018, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topcat61 View Post
Leon I'm just thinking out loud here, but would a gram scale be able to pick up a counterfeit or skinned T206? perhaps even a black light or digital microscope? What are the telltale signs to look for? Thanks
I have heard of people using scales, personally I have not and can't imagine that changing.

All you need is a good dial caliper that you can read thousandths of an inch on. Like Steve said in a previous post .001 is a lot of difference in a baseball card. If a card has been skinned you will know for sure.

Not recommending the seller buy Lyman is a good quality caliper. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...tainless-steel
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:32 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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I have one similar to this one. I like the instant inch/metric conversion.
While I wouldn't rely on it for any really critical machining, mine has been very reliable and accurate.
The digital readout may be easier for people not used to the dial caliper.

I also don't have any particular recommendation for the seller, I just picked one in the price range of what I paid for mine that looked nearly the same. Other similar ones are available a lot of places for a bit under $20 to a bit over $40. One with a good brand name that would look better if you're doing serious machining will run around 2-300 But for most of us that's not necessary.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabe...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:41 PM
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And for what it's worth, I made a halfhearted attempt at finding a nearly matching cardstock without going to a wholesale paper supplier.

Craft stores - Nope.
Hobby shops - Comic backing boards are close, and don't react to UV, but they're too thick.
Other retail sources- Nothing close at all.
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  #27  
Old 04-27-2018, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
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The problem with these cards is that there is extra paper and glue on there, which would totally throw off the weight.
Really? How many have you handled?
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