Possible T210 Scrap. Thoughts/Opinions?

[Jason]

I picked this neat little card up awhile back. I am almost sure this card is indeed from a scrap sheet. Possibly the first sheet used for alignment and discarded after the name caption/ player placement wasnt correct. In the side by side scans you can see the player is moved up as well as the caption. This could be an important clue to the T card printing process as it appears the caption and player where printing at the same time. The card is also totally devoid of the finishing gloss. Also the borders are the deepest red I have ever seen on a T210. For these reasons I am almost confident it is a factory scrap. I have been searching for a similar card not only in the T210 set but other similar issues as well. I would appreciate anyones feedback on this card or others like it. Thank guys.

[wonkaticket]

Very cool card Jason, congrats!

[shernan30]

Awesome pickup Jason!! Couldn't think of a better collection for it to find its way too.


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[seablaster]

Hey Jason, I think your assumption that the image and caption were printed in one pass is correct. The T210 Billiard misprint would suggest that as well.

Whether this card is an example from a sheet of scrap, I don't know. I don't fully know/understand the merits of printer's scrap, but what does seem apparent is that this card has what appears to be a factory cut.

I think a hundred years ago, the printers weren't so precise about which cards they allowed through and which they didn't. I would think that most cards which originated from scrap sheets were intended to be discarded, and thus probably hand cut.

Why it lacks gloss is anyone's guess.

[Jason Carota]

Nice card, Jason. I wonder if the card (or sheet) in question could have been a design test, hence the misalignment/lack of gloss? Looks like the shift of the player and caption could have been intentional. The visible player image is almost the same, but it seems as if the designer(s) were thinking about using a separate area just for the caption. As a test, they would have skipped the gloss (I would guess.)

[Jason]

Thanks for the kind words John/Steven.

K, the Billiard card is a great example further adding clues to the printing process. I was an underbidder on it assuming this is the one you are speaking of. Very interesting I wish I could have added it to my collection. I agree it appears to be a factory cut, the Hicks that is.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Jason Carota

Nice card, Jason. I wonder if the card (or sheet) in question could have been a design test, hence the misalignment/lack of gloss? Looks like the shift of the player and caption could have been intentional. The visible player image is almost the same, but it seems as if the designer(s) were thinking about using a separate area just for the caption. As a test, they would have skipped the gloss (I would guess.)

When I noticed the lack of gloss that was my assumption as well. It was a test/design sheet left unfinished.

[Michael Peich]

I think the lack of gloss may have been intentional. Once the printer(s) determined that the sheet was flawed, the final gloss coating was not applied. The four gloss-less examples I have seen all appear to be hand-cut, and I think all are scrap.

In these examples from my collection, Bivens' name is printed a bit higher on the scrap version, like Jason's Hicks. However, Cantwell's name/team doesn't seem to be printed higher than usual, although I don't have a copy with gloss to measure it against (hint, hint!). That being said, I think Cantwell is also scrap.

Cheers, Mike

[sb1]

In the example above Bivens foot is nearer the red border by only a millimeter or so. As can be seen in the Ex-Lelands one further up, the red border was printed after the black & white portion, leaving a perfect storm for misalignment, from which the "name misplaced" cards resulted. The Hicks card should have the red right next to his socks, but does not due to misalignment and the resulting white bar under the name.

[Jason]

Nice group of cards Michael. Thank you for sharing the Bivens scan with a slight name jump. I agree with SB1 that the image is slightly off too.

As for the Cantwell, its scrap for sure I thought that when I first saw the lot and more so once you posted single scans at the time of its pick up. Good luck in finding another one for comparison. If I happen across another one ill keep you posted.

[shammus]

A couple more to add to the growing number of "scrap"/oddball cards to come out of t210.

Funny thing, I wasn't aware of any of these existing until about a year ago when I started seeing them. I always thought t210 was a really clean issue except for the orange borders...

43-192a_lg.jpg

t210OHalloran.jpg

[steve B]

The gloss can be a bit strange on these.

Here's one that only got about half the gloss.




The image shifted up is probably an error in registration. Either the black and red didn't line up when the press was set up, or the sheet fed improperly.

Typically a few sheets are used to adjust the press, and aren't meant to be cut and used. They do get reused to setup other stuff, which is where the really odd cards with multiple different backs etc come from.

Steve B