What Happened to REA???

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Posted By: Matt

Jim - did you get my email?

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Posted By: Al Simeone

Leon,
As the first poster to this thread and knowing what I do know I wanted to see how you were going to address this issue. I do find your posted reason a little bit strange. You know I like both of you but to take this kind of stance is as it was put is "FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG". If the reason is what you said it was and quote " I felt it appropriate to reciprocate" then I think you should go and take a look at the others also. Not all of them have a link or blog to the Net54 site. Or am I missing something? Rob at least does make a mention to the site I believe thru the Mears reference on his blog. In My Opinion (and dont get me wrong ) I think you do a great job on the Forum and how most issues are handled here but to do this in the way you did I truely believe this is beneath you.Money aside paid or not paid REA I.E. Rob Lifson does provide a great wealth of knowledge to almost every collector who frequents this board! And Leon I would say that also if it was Bill Mastro or any other one of your auction house supporters. I really feel you should re consider your position.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Jim, not sucking up, I happen to know some of the back story and feel the action is appropriate in light of that.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Peter,

I am taking Leon at his word for the reason REA is not listed--tit for tat.

Thanks but I don't want to bookend--just want to go to 1 page and see them all listed.

Matt,

No--I am at work--you probably sent it to my home e-mail.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Jim lol it's "bookmark" not "bookend". Now that you are posting such great scans that feigned computer ignorance rings hollow!!

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Peter,

My scanning is not good either--I cannot for the life of me figure out how to use that scanning service; My larger cards won't scan and I run out of space regularly....and I wouldn't know a bookmark from a bookend if I tripped over it.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Jim,

All due respect, but how is it you get to this site and CU's site when you were posting there? Do you use the Net54 links to go to the various auction sites to bid?

Not trying to pick a fight just trying to understand why this is such a big deal. I understand you support Rob and you are one of many who he seems to have in his corner.

Thanks,

Greg

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Just a few points on the issue of the link itself:

I find the auctions links to be a helpful index for the various auction houses and use them frequently when I don't feel like typing the names. So from that standpoint, they are useful for me and for other N54 members.

My (limited) understanding of how internet search engines work is that click-throughs and cross-references to other sites do help elevate a site's rating, so it is in the best ($$) interest of a web site with advertising revenue and a large link database to leave as many pertinent links in place as it can. I think better search engine results would only help the board members by bringing in more participants. Personally,, I would love it if every vintage collector made it to this site; the more the merrier when it comes to playing with old baseball cards...

The vintage links aren't paid advertising; they don't generate $$ in and of themselves. They are a resource for the community. Ad money has nothing to do with Leon's decisionmaking on the link.

We participate in the board; Leon owns it. It is a dictatorship and Leon is the main dic. He has the right to decide what does and does not go on here. If you don't care for that fact of life, move on to another site.

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Posted By: paulstratton

So Rob now supports cockfighting(however indirectly) instead of sponsoring chicken dinners? Ironic.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Greg,

I go to my favorite site--Lets Talk Sportscards-- and they have links for Net54, CU and about 100 other sites.

In my world Greg there is always a fundamentally right thing and a fundamentally wrong thing. Altering cards is always wrong--period end of story. Not listing REA is wrong. It doesn't matter if there are other ways of getting around it and if I bookend I can get there. that all misses the point of right and wrong.

I always saw you as a fundamentally right or wrong guy--look at what you did to try to expose all the trimmers out there. You did it not to help your business--it undoubtedly hurt it--you did it because it was the right thing to do.

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Posted By: ScottIngold

Damn cockfighting again........

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

If its Fundamentally Wrong for Leon to remove the REA link here then is it also Fundamentally Wrong for REA not to link here?

martyOgelvie
nyyankeecards.com

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Thanks for the reply.

I am not commenting on the right or wrong aspects of the hobby and where I feel Rob or REA belongs on that scale. As you know I have been involved in the hobby mostly as a dealer since 1989 and have been privy to some of the darker sides of the industry. Altered cards making it into holders and getting by graders is not the only act of deceit that is practiced in the hobby.

My point was to show support to Leon's decision to remove the link based on what I know of the situation. I will also support Rob by bidding in his auction and consigning to him when and if I have things that are suitable.

Take care!

Greg

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Posted By: John H.

"Guys,

Usually I'll side with Leon, but in this situation, he's going to have to come up with a better reason than the one he gave us.

I'm sure that Net54 members believe that we are the board for pre-war cards. If that is the case then they need to associate with the best auction houses and having links to their websites is a start.

Peter C."

************************************************** **********************************************

"Guys,

I'm satisfied with what Leon has told us so far. Also, since I never win anything in REA auctions, it really doesn't make much of a difference to me personally.

Peter C."

************************************************** **********************************************

Huh??? Did I miss a startling revelation that caused Peter to change his mind?

John

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Posted By: Dave F

I noticed both Peter C's comments as well....was waiting to see if anyone else would catch that. What in the world Peter??

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Posted By: Jim VB

John, Dave F.,

Politicians refer to this type of thinking as "a versatility of conviction." It's pretty common inside of the DC beltway. Less so in San Francisco.

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

LOL

That was a quick flip flop.  I had to go back and make sure I didn't miss Leon adding to his original post after reading Peter's 2nd post.   Perhaps Peter is practicing for a run at public office.

martyOgelvie
nyyankeecards.com

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Picked uo on that too. Since there were no postings from Leon between Peter C's two posts, unless he received a private email from Leon, it's bizarre. So what else is new?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Perhaps someone emailed Peter with the "inside" information about what really has happened?

But hey....nothing like piling on.... so go ahead and carry on.

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Posted By: pas

As Walt Whitman said (I hope I get it right) "Do I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself. I am vast, I contain multitudes."

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Posted By: peter chao

There was no startling revelation. It's just that reciprocity is important in the business world. If Leon was letting REA have a link on this website for free and REA won't reciprocate, then there's no reason for Leon to continue having the REA link. Just that simple.

Peter C.

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Posted By: pas

In a non-Euclidean world governed by the Tao of Chao, A and not A are not opposites.

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Posted By: Brian

and bianary is 00 or 11 but never 01

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

"There was no startling revelation. It's just that reciprocity is important in the business world. If Leon was letting REA have a link on this website for free and REA won't reciprocate, then there's no reason for Leon to continue having the REA link. Just that simple."

Except that more than an hour and a half after Leon posted his reciprocity explanation, you said he would "have to come up with a better reason than the one he gave us."

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Posted By: Brian

the board has picked a fine time to expect Chaoism to be logical...

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Posted By: pas

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.

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Posted By: peter chao

Once again there is no such thing as Chaoism. All I did was give more weight to Leon's reasons and change my mind.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Al Simeone

Leon,
Having just been "brought up to speed" about this whole issue. I to want to say I now respect the decision you made and why you made it. I do hope some time in the future something works out because BOTH of you are very good people and an asset to the hobby.

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Posted By: ScottIngold

Chaoism......Thats funny.

Peter,

Have you bought or dealt with Rob before ?

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Posted By: Joann

Well it certainly doesn't seem like the missing link is at all about anyone's ability to get to REA's web site - so anything related to not being able to find it, or that someone should be able to bookmark, or whatever seems off-center to me. It's not about being able to get to their site via link from here.

It's about what the board is, and the polictics of it.

I think in a perfect world this would be an open and independent resource to the vintage card collecting world, and as such the link would be included. On that theoretical and idealistic basis, I think it should be.

But it's not just that we aren't linked on the REA site. Leon put it that way probably as an attempt to be as neutral as possible, but it was an understatement to say the least.

Many of us got the email a few weeks ago from REA talking about hobby resources and links. Not only was this board not included, but it was very publicly, pointedly and intentionally not included. I thought it was clear that the email went out of it's way - almost to the point of awkwardness - to exclude this site. I was very surprised there wasn't more comment on that.

Whether there is or isn't a back story or whether you know it or not or whatever, I thought the email alone was an intentional and public slap in the face to this board and to Leon. Although it purported to give some vaguely objective reasons for the omission - conflicted interests, etc - it seemed clear that the intent was to promote the other board at the expense of this one.

So who can blame Leon for taking it down? I don't blame him one bit. I still like to live in ideal-land and think it would be nice to have it still included. But when someone as big and influential as REA goes out of their way to publicly say you suck, basically, even under the guise of complimenting someone else - well, you owe that person no favors.

By the way, I've bought from REA in the past and enjoy their auctions each year. I think they are a fine organization. I was even a bit surprised to see the email used to give what I thought was a very public insult to this board. But that doesn't mean I dislike REA - just that I disagreed with that particular action.

Joann

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Posted By: Cobby33

Would Jackie Chiles view this as a public humiliation?

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Posted By: peter chao

Scott,

I've bid on REA auctions, but have never won anything and I have never directly dealt with Rob Lifson.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Matt

I'm pretty sure Jacky Chiles would say this is preposterous.

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Posted By: Brian

Chaoism is real, and its spectacular!!!

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Posted By: Bob

As usual I agree with JoAnn who is so often the voice of reason around here. Leon and I haven't always agreed but I understand the rationale here and support him. Running this board can often be a pain in the butt and he should be allowed leeway and discretion. I will still bid in REA auctions and have never had anything but excellent transactions with Rob Lifson, but I understand why the move was made.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Peter is right. There is not such thing as "Chaosim."

It's called "Chao Theory."

Although I suppose they are one and the same. And yet, not the same. They are everything, and yet, nothing. Chao Theory helps people lose everything they know, everything they desire, and creates confusion in those who think that they know. The path to enlightenment is the path of the Professor!




-Ryan

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Posted By: peter chao

LOL. I have to admit it, Joann is much more rational than I am, I'm ready to defer to her opinion.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Peter, I'm sure you're quite the persuasive lawyer. I guess you can always win an argument if you take both sides of the issue.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Jeff,

Let's hope none of Peter C's perspective clients read any of his posts here. He might find himself with even more free time on his hands. And you know what that means? More inane posts.

Greg

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Greg, that won't happen because my God is a merciful God.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

I've changed my mind on this issue. I now agree with Peter and for any and all questions on this matter I refer you to my new lawyer Peter Chao--give'em some more of that Chaoism Peter.

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Posted By: Steve

This topic is far to "deep" for me to want to decipher but reinforces my opinion that the only auction house to visit is humble Barry's.

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Posted By: peter chao

Jim,

Your pulling my leg aren't you? You haven't changed your position at all, have you? That's okay we can agree to disagree.

By the way, I not only do not believe in Chaoism, I'm also not a great believer of standardized tests. I've done really well on them and I've done really bad on them. Contrary to what educators say, it's really a matter of preparation for the test more than anything else.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Yes, exactly. And these pretzels are making me thirsty again.

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Posted By: Al Simeone

Now if those last few statements arenot CHAOISM at its best I dont know what is!!! As TELLI would say "WHO LOVES YA BABY"

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Peter, even though I think (?) it's unintentional you may be the funniest person I've ever encountered on the internet.

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Posted By: Brian

Chaoism is real, and its spectacular!!!

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Posted By: peter chao

Dan,

Thanks. If I put a smile on your face then I feel better also.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

...and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does.

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Posted By: ScottIngold

"By the way, I not only do not believe in Chaoism"

??????