Taking a break from the hobby (and that is why I hate .99 cent auctions!)

[glynparson]

You should cut the guy some slack and move on. If this becomes a pattern i am sure he would end up blocked by many on Net54 but a single mistake I know i have made more than 1 in my lifetime.

[ullmandds]

and since when is it ok to advertise sales on the front page?

and all sales of modern cards at that.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

and since when is it ok to advertise sales on the front page?

and all sales of modern cards at that.

It's not ok to sell things on the front page. This has been mentioned and is on the radar. I should add I see talk about selling but not specifics or links....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

It's not ok to sell things on the front page. This has been mentioned and is on the radar. I should add I see talk about selling but not specifics or links....

Post 10.

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

and since when is it ok to advertise sales on the front page?

and all sales of modern cards at that.

That is the cruelest cut of all!

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

you sound like you stepping up but offering to pay the difference and also willing to just pay......i just want to add that if i ever received a 2nd chance offer from a seller i never buy it...i also really downgrade the seller in my eyes as he could be legit..or he could just be using a shill and 'won' the card by accident....if someone won one of my aucitons i wouldnt do a 2nd chance auction to the underbidder for those reasons..

This is exactly why I don't do 2nd Chance offers either, unless it is an item that I clearly could and do have multiples of the exact same item. That wouldn't be the case with graded cards.

My suggestion, if he is willing to work with you, is to run the item at auction again and allow you to just pay the difference between what it sells for the second time and what you won it for. The second time around will be less, but if you're paying the difference, wouldn't be as much a concern for him.

I might also say I sympathize somewhat with the seller, as it's no fun to think you just got a record-high price for something, only to get sucker-punched with a renege or accusation of shilling. Even if he successfully wades through the muck to the other side of the deal, all that added work and negotiation takes a bit of the shine off of the initial high of the sale. I've been there plenty of times, and just wished the winner had stayed out of it to begin with so that the underbidder would have won it at a lesser, but still satisfying, price.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

Of course it wouldve been too simple just cancelling the transaction...but then if the board didnt know about it, was there any drama at all?

Seriously?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=220338

As far as the situation with Bobby and Steve, I've dealt with both of them and think they're both great guys. Hope it works out for both.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

This is exactly why I don't do 2nd Chance offers either, unless it is an item that I clearly could and do have multiples of the exact same item. That wouldn't be the case with graded cards.

My suggestion, if he is willing to work with you, is to run the item at auction again and allow you to just pay the difference between what it sells for the second time and what you won it for. The second time around will be less, but if you're paying the difference, wouldn't be as much a concern for him.

I might also say I sympathize somewhat with the seller, as it's no fun to think you just got a record-high price for something, only to get sucker-punched with a renege or accusation of shilling. Even if he successfully wades through the muck to the other side of the deal, all that added work and negotiation takes a bit of the shine off of the initial high of the sale. I've been there plenty of times, and just wished the winner had stayed out of it to begin with so that the underbidder would have won it at a lesser, but still satisfying, price.

I disagree. Take the board member at his word. Cancel the transaction, no questions or repercussions, and move on.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Post 10.

Not anymore. I hadn't had enough coffee and actually didn't even think about it until this morning when I got a PM from another member....but still didn't see the link . Sorry about that....

[bobbyw8469]

Sorry for all the drama. Some people think I like drama. I really don't. I am actually rather quiet and quite reserved. Thanks everyone for your support.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Uh-oh....Pending issue right out the gate!!

Some of us would define that as drama.

[bobbyw8469]

PS - I have always sold and delivered a card, no matter how.cheaply it sold for (case in point - the 1954 Bowman Ted Williams that sold for a song during EBay's problematic time). Is it too much to ask a winning buyer to honor his transaction? All the major auction houses have wordage in their catalogs even stating that they can't allow retractions. Since when did we get to be so carefree that cancelling bids and not honoring winning bids is now deemed acceptable practice?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

PS - I have always sold and delivered a card, no matter how.cheaply it sold for (case in point - the 1954 Bowman Ted Williams that sold for a song during EBay's problematic time). Is it too much to ask a winning buyer to honor his transaction? All the major auction houses have wordage in their catalogs even stating that they can't allow retractions. Since when did we get to be so carefree that cancelling bids and not honoring winning bids is now deemed acceptable practice?

He explained that he made a mistake. What's the point of forcing it down his throat if he doesn't want it at that price? I would think the vast majority of people here would just say ok whatever. I could be wrong of course.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

PS - I have always sold and delivered a card, no matter how.cheaply it sold for (case in point - the 1954 Bowman Ted Williams that sold for a song during EBay's problematic time). Is it too much to ask a winning buyer to honor his transaction? All the major auction houses have wordage in their catalogs even stating that they can't allow retractions. Since when did we get to be so carefree that cancelling bids and not honoring winning bids is now deemed acceptable practice?

Why put yourself through the drama? I'm a seller on ebay, but have learned it's a buyer's playground, you play by their rules or else. The last time I tried to hold a guy to his bid by threatening to give him a NPB strike he paid and immediately gave me a negative. Not worth the hassle. Cancel the transaction and relist, it's healthier.

[vintagetoppsguy]

One thing I've learned about this board. You can take two nearly identical situations and people's opinions will change based on who the board members are.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

PS - I have always sold and delivered a card, no matter how.cheaply it sold for (case in point - the 1954 Bowman Ted Williams that sold for a song during EBay's problematic time). Is it too much to ask a winning buyer to honor his transaction? All the major auction houses have wordage in their catalogs even stating that they can't allow retractions. Since when did we get to be so carefree that cancelling bids and not honoring winning bids is now deemed acceptable practice?

Though I don't agree with you basically running a BST thread on the main board, I agree with you that the buyer is obligated to pay.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...ew.html#paying

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Though I don't agree with you basically running a BST thread on the main board, I agree with you that the buyer is obligated to pay.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...ew.html#paying

Nobody including Steve himself is disputing the "obligation" to pay. The question is what is the right thing to do. Bob has the option to cancel the transaction and IMO that is what he should do.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

One thing I've learned about this board. You can take two nearly identical situations and people's opinions will change based on who the board members are.

+1. You are an astute man David James! I have noticed that as well myself.

The card in question was a 1961 Topps Juan Marichal rookie card (PSA 6). As far as regular Topps issues go, this is one of the most off centered cards I know of (as well as the 1959 Bob Gibson). The winning buyer seemed to be quite hung up on VCP average and not wanting to get ripped off (which the average is around $66). Being a VCP member myself, I explained to him that all the cards selling for VCP average or less, are HORRENDOUSLY off centered, to the tune of 80/20 or worse, usually favoring the extreme left or right border. If you notice any of the cards selling for more than that, all of them are centered halfway decent. The selling prices range from $90-$105 for cards that are centered half-way decent. That being said, he overpaid by a whopping $9! Doesn't have to be 50/50, just better than the usual horrible ones I am seeing. The buyer didn't want to hear that. He thought $66 was gonna win it. I am not a fan of problematic auctions for the exact reasons two other members have stated. One of the underbidders is one of the premiere PSA graded card "flippers" on EBay. Do I want to risk alienating his future business (he bids on alot of my stuff) by letting him think that this particular auction was shilled?? Hell no! I will probably send him a 2nd chance anyway, and hope for the best, as I really hate starting over from scratch.

And yes, that was a valid question - does he really want to be blocked for overpaying by $9????? I block all non-paying bidders - I sure as hell will block one for doing what he is doing (which in my opinion is worse, because he should know better).

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nobody including Steve himself is disputing the "obligation" to pay. The question is what is the right thing to do.

Well really most everyone is acting like it's a foregone conclusion that he should just forget it and move on. As David said, unfortunately it seems the reaction to this "drama" depends on who is on each side.

[bobbyw8469]

Agreed.....depending on the parties involved, you get different stories. I have asked the buyer to cancel the transaction. It will probably be relisted when I get my Clemente and Aaron rookie back from PSA, as I like to group all my rookies together. Hopefully it will do well the 2nd go round as well. I wish he had never "sniped" as it totally ruined the auction. It might also mess up my future dealings with the underbidders. I know you can change/cancel snipes up until the last 3 minutes. If he knew that he put in a $666 snipe, why didn't he just change or cancel it????????

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bob you did the right thing, IMO. I hope the card does fine next time.

[wilkiebaby11]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Agreed.....depending on the parties involved, you get different stories. I have asked the buyer to cancel the transaction. It will probably be relisted when I get my Clemente and Aaron rookie back from PSA, as I like to group all my rookies together. Hopefully it will do well the 2nd go round as well. I wish he had never "sniped" as it totally ruined the auction. It might also mess up my future dealings with the underbidders. I know you can change/cancel snipes up until the last 3 minutes. If he knew that he put in a $666 snipe, why didn't he just change or cancel it????????

Our stories are both 100% correct, our interpretations are different though.

You see my bid as a great deal and one I should be obligated to pay, no matter the circumstances.
I see my bid as a mistake, a mistake that I was hoping you would understand and help me out. (I don't deny the obligation to pay)

In the end, I am thankful that you cancelled the transaction. So there is a thanks due; thanks.

As for the snipe... I obviously didnt realize that my bid was ridiculously high or I would have changed it. The whole point of a snipe is to not have to watch the item. It's like the old commercial for rotisserie oven, "set it and forget it." I don't know why you continue to think that I knew my bid was incorrect and I simply let it be. (Also, GavelSnipe.com recently increased their bid-change policy to 10 minutes, which is the service I use.)

Lastly, I'm going to doubt (though I could be wrong) that any underbidders are going to be deterred by the relisting. Maybe you should send them a message telling them that the card is going back up for auction because the top bidder was a no-good-for-nothing bidder. Obviously you have some sort of repertoire or relationship with one of them since you know he is one of the "premiere PSA graded card flippers on EBay". That's a rather notorious badge to put on another user without knowing them in some sort of way.

But in the end, I do have to thank you for cancelling the transaction as you didnt have to. So for that I am grateful and I appreciate it. I also apologize for making my mistake on the snipe.

[asoriano]

Steve - what is your eBay name so I can block you?

Turn.er E.ngle

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Steve - what is your eBay name so I can block you?

Turn.er E.ngle

Haha! This is turning out to be an insidious execution of a sale of non-vintage items on the front page vintage section. Strike one, 2 three you should be out and so should this thread be .

[frankbmd]

leaving the hobby for a $9 dispute seems ridiculous, but

not paying $75 for a $9 mistake seems just as ridiculous.

I'd call it a draw.

[wilkiebaby11]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Steve - what is your eBay name so I can block you?

Turn.er E.ngle

Sent to ya.

I'm not a huge spender on cards, but I do push the 4-figure mark each month. So over paying for 1 certain card was not a huge issue. I simply reached out to Robert explaining that this one time that I made a mistake and if he could in anyway help me out, that I would appreciate it.

Unfortunately he decided to make a private matter on eBay into a public matter on a separate platform, making a post and changing the title of this thread. Maybe I added fuel to the fire by replying to it, but I wanted to clear the air on what was happening. Our stories nearly perfectly coincide, just our interpretations differ.

I never said that I wouldn't pay. I simply, and kindly, asked for any help and understanding in my mistake. He didnt have to obliged. But he has, so kudos to him.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by wilkiebaby11

Sent to ya.

I'm not a huge spender on cards, but I do push the 4-figure mark each month. So over paying for 1 certain card was not a huge issue. I simply reached out to Robert explaining that this one time that I made a mistake and if he could in anyway help me out, that I would appreciate it.

Unfortunately he decided to make a private matter on eBay into a public matter on a separate platform, making a post and changing the title of this thread. Maybe I added fuel to the fire by replying to it, but I wanted to clear the air on what was happening. Our stories nearly perfectly coincide, just our interpretations differ.

I never said that I wouldn't pay. I simply, and kindly, asked for any help and understanding in my mistake. He didnt have to obliged. But he has, so kudos to him.

I think you comported yourself just fine. And in the end Bob did the right thing too, and deserves respect for doing so.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Bob you did the right thing, IMO. I hope the card does fine next time.

Peter, I usually agree with about 95% of the stuff you post here. I like you and respect you as a board member. However, this is one of those 5% times you are wrong.

Both parties should do the right thing IMO. Bobby did his part by cancelling the sale (even though he did nothing wrong). However, Steve should make good here too. Here's how:

The card sold for $114. Bobby should re-list the card and Steve should pay Bobby the difference between the $114 and what the cards sells for the second time around. For example, if the card sells for $90, Steve should pay Bobby $24, the difference between the two auctions.

After all, there is an under bidder in all this that nobody is considering that was willing to pay up to $111.50 for the card. Therefore, Bobby shouldn't lose money the second time around.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I agree that would be an appropriate gesture on Steve's part.

[bobbyw8469]

Yes, I did make a generalization oh here, but I had no.intention of calling Steve out, even when it was obvious he wasn't going to pay. He is the one that announced his part in the transaction. In addition to selling, I am also a buyer (well, more so before I decided to take a break). It never crosses my mind to not pay for an auction I win, no matter what. Maybe I think differently than most. I also announced my break before this auction. This is one of the sells made during my opening purge.

[chaddurbin]

oh haha you guys got me good, i got sucked into this vortex of drama over a difference of $9! now i feel silly kinda siding with the buyer on this, he made it sound all dramatic about how it's 67% over vcp and his snipe was accidently set at 10x the ending price...gasp the horror!!! all the back and forth and you guys couldn't resolve a $9 difference of a $60 postwar card.

this board is getting just silly, i think i'm just gonna exclusively hang out in the one designated prewar thread on the board. good bye greatest guitarist of them all (prince), good bye trout/harper/bryant (they're all white guys so you can't go wrong), good bye fake/real/bad scan/shady seller e90-1 young (since it's actually pre-war related of course no one on a prewar board would know the answer to).

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Seriously?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=220338

As far as the situation with Bobby and Steve, I've dealt with both of them and think they're both great guys. Hope it works out for both.

+1 on having great dealings with both fellows.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[swarmee]

I would have no problem buying the Marichal rookie for $100 PP F/F and this thread can stop ($112.50 minus 10% ebay fee is $100). How's that work out?

[bobbyw8469]

It's yours swarmee if you want it!! I sent Steve a notice to cancel, and so far he hasn't agreed to it yet.

I think it is silly as well....he didn't overpay that much (not for a centered Marichal rookie card). The card market is definitely heating up, so I didn't see anything unusual at all with the final selling price.

[bobbyw8469]

People get too hung up on VCP average. Like I said earlier, non centered cards go at and below average. Centered ones go for much higher than that. People should learn to focus on the card, and not the flip. Thanks heavens not everyone gets caught up in VCP average, or we wouldn't have $100,000 Joe Namath rookie cards!

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

oh haha you guys got me good, i got sucked into this vortex of drama over a difference of $9! now i feel silly kinda siding with the buyer on this, he made it sound all dramatic about how it's 67% over vcp and his snipe was accidently set at 10x the ending price...gasp the horror!!! all the back and forth and you guys couldn't resolve a $9 difference of a $60 postwar card.

this board is getting just silly, i think i'm just gonna exclusively hang out in the one designated prewar thread on the board. good bye greatest guitarist of them all (prince), good bye trout/harper/bryant (they're all white guys so you can't go wrong), good bye fake/real/bad scan/shady seller e90-1 young (since it's actually pre-war related of course no one on a prewar board would know the answer to).

[Peter_Spaeth]

8.5 Namath at 85K. Uh.... whatever.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

8.5 Namath at 85K. Uh.... whatever.

It's not finished yet...that's why i said $100,000.....just an optimistic prediction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

It's not finished yet...that's why i said $100,000.....just an optimistic prediction.

Madness, IMHO.

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

People should learn to focus on the card, and not the flip.

Your auction listing verbiage would lead me to believe differently ...

"All of our graded cards have been authenticated by the best 3rd party graders available (PSA, SGC, & BGS/BVG). Anything not graded by one of these grading companies isn't worth the money paid for it."

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Your auction listing verbiage would lead me to believe differently ...

"All of our graded cards have been authenticated by the best 3rd party graders available (PSA, SGC, & BGS/BVG). Anything not graded by one of these grading companies isn't worth the money paid for it."

Right...what is wrong with that?? I don't sell any GEM, PRO, IGA (or whatever they are called) cards... That statement was written by my girlfriend, oh, about 10 or so years ago. I don't see anything wrong with it?

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

Your auction listing verbiage would lead me to believe differently ...

"All of our graded cards have been authenticated by the best 3rd party graders available (PSA, SGC, & BGS/BVG). Anything not graded by one of these grading companies isn't worth the money paid for it."

+1

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by drmondobueno

+1

-1 Read previous post.

[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Sorry for all the drama. Some people think I like drama. I really don't. I am actually rather quiet and quite reserved. Thanks everyone for your support.

Thanks for the laugh!

Steve, on the other hand, is the most respectable man I have ever dealt with in this hobby. Sounds like he made an honest mistake and was asking for (not expecting) you to do him a solid.

Which you did, after injecting a large dose of drama. But you hate drama. I forgot.

[wilkiebaby11]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Yes, I did make a generalization oh here, but I had no.intention of calling Steve out, even when it was obvious he wasn't going to pay.

This is a 100% false assumption and accusation. One that I don't take kindly. I have not made a single accusation towards you and I don't appreciate receiving it.

You told me I had 7 days to pay. I didnt pay at 11pm on Friday... And I didnt pay on Saturday either since we were still messaging. Then I saw this thread and post, and I was kind of disturbed by it, so forgive me for not running to my computer to pay you immediately. Not once, in all of our messages did I say that I refused to pay. I have never not paid for an item I had won and was obligated to pay. All I asked was if you could understand my mistake/situation and possibly send out a second chance offer. When you said "no, you have 7 days to pay" I didnt refute that. I also didnt want to pay just that minute as yes, I was a little upset that you weren't a little more considerate, but instead kept telling me how awesome of a deal I got and the small threats of missed opportunities, and then this thread. Like I said earlier, paying $45 over my 'wanted snipe' wasnt going to break me, I simply asked you for a favor. That was it, nothing more.

I'm still kind of lost on your stance of Second Chance offers though. At first you said you don't do them, then you were considering them, not again, then maybe again. I have and will continue to stand by my offer of making up the difference on any of the second chance offers that you may or may not send out. There were 2 underbidders that also would have set a new record for the card's grade.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

-1 Read previous post.

I did.

[wilkiebaby11]

This whole situation was me asking Robert "Hey, I made a mistake; could you do me a solid?", not "Hey, I made a mistake; I'm not paying".

I dont know if Robert took it that way, or if others have as well. I simply asked a favor of a board member to help me rectify my mistake (especially given there were other bidders that seemed to really want the card... given the record price that they bid). I added to it by offering to make up the difference of my bid to the second chance offering.

And yet again... I never stated, threatened, or implied that I would ever NOT pay for the card.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

+1. You are an astute man David James! I have noticed that as well myself.

The card in question was a 1961 Topps Juan Marichal rookie card (PSA 6). As far as regular Topps issues go, this is one of the most off centered cards I know of (as well as the 1959 Bob Gibson). The winning buyer seemed to be quite hung up on VCP average and not wanting to get ripped off (which the average is around $66). Being a VCP member myself, I explained to him that all the cards selling for VCP average or less, are HORRENDOUSLY off centered, to the tune of 80/20 or worse, usually favoring the extreme left or right border. If you notice any of the cards selling for more than that, all of them are centered halfway decent. The selling prices range from $90-$105 for cards that are centered half-way decent. That being said, he overpaid by a whopping $9! Doesn't have to be 50/50, just better than the usual horrible ones I am seeing. The buyer didn't want to hear that. He thought $66 was gonna win it. I am not a fan of problematic auctions for the exact reasons two other members have stated. One of the underbidders is one of the premiere PSA graded card "flippers" on EBay. Do I want to risk alienating his future business (he bids on alot of my stuff) by letting him think that this particular auction was shilled?? Hell no! I will probably send him a 2nd chance anyway, and hope for the best, as I really hate starting over from scratch.

And yes, that was a valid question - does he really want to be blocked for overpaying by $9????? I block all non-paying bidders - I sure as hell will block one for doing what he is doing (which in my opinion is worse, because he should know better).

its funny its over 8 dollars! and its a clear obligation..yeah you can get out of it on a mistake but why go that route? Heck i have paid hundreds of dollars and followed through on a 'mistake' and bought the card and resold the card and taken a 10-20% loss which to me was better than not meeting my obligation...to me 9 dollars isnt worth it to cry to the seller etc (and yes i know there may be a diisagremetn of the exact amount difference) and even offer to pay the difference on a another auction...wait a week to pay 9 dollars? Plus if now buy the card at 'vcp' ..now im out the 9 dollars on the 'deal' i made plus the money spent for VCP...and its probably not as centered a card.....

Yes i know the bidder was willing to pay for the card if not released from the obligation, but i why not just pay it...save the 'favor' to be released from an obligation on a bigger type transaction...now this is on the record if something else comes up

[wilkiebaby11]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

its funny its over 8 dollars! and its a clear obligation..yeah you can get out of it on a mistake but why go that route? Heck i have paid hundreds of dollars and followed through on a 'mistake' and bought the card and resold the card and taken a 10-20% loss which to me was better than not meeting my obligation...to me 9 dollars isnt worth it to cry to the seller etc. ...

I dont know where the $9 or $8 are coming from. I wanted to snipe it at $66, VCP was $68 at the time. The card ended at $114 with me as the winner. I'm no mathematician, actually yes I am, but the difference is $48. I felt that it was significant enough, given the card, that I could at least ask Robert for the favor. I thought it wouldn't hurt. (Boy, was I 100% wrong. Proof through this ongoing thread)

I've said it multiple times, I didnt say, imply, or threaten that I wouldn't pay. There were 2 underbidders that bid what would have been a new record price, if not for my mistake snipe. I simply asked Robert, if he wouldnt mind asking the underbidders if they wanted it. There was no mention of not paying on my part. I knew he was a board member, so I thought that maybe he would do me the solid. Obviously someone wanted it more than I did.

[Peter_Spaeth]

More importantly, is correct usage do me A solid or do me THE solid?

Burkett naturally is to blame for the 9 dollars.

[wilkiebaby11]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

More importantly, is correct usage do me A solid or do me THE solid?

Burkett naturally is to blame for the 9 dollars.

Here in PA, it's do me 'a solid'. But I'm sure it's different elsewhere where 'yinz' are from. There's a reason why the way that I talk is called Pittsburghese.