Whats the point of the SMR?

[JoeyF]

Im just curious to why even have a smr price guide when most collectors base their cards on the vcp value? who decides the smr value and whats the point of it?

[novakjr]

Propaganda intended to make people think their cards will be more valuable if they get them graded by PSA.. Personally, I'll read the SMR magazine for the articles, but never once looked at the prices.

[glchen]

I use price guides like SMR, Beckett, etc, more for comparative pricing rather than absolute since as you said VCP and actual auction data is much better. For example, you may forget about minor HOFers like Joe Gordon, Elmer Flick, and Billy Southworth until you look at the price guides and see that they are worth slightly more than commons. Similarly you may not realize a certain card is short print until you are reminded of it by the price guide.

[HRBAKER]

It's an advertising vehicle masquerading as a price guide.

[Cy2009]

Joey,

Most people don't use VCP. The fact of the matter is that only a portion of the people on Net 54 use VCP. And the number of collectors here at Net 54 as compared with all the collectors is incredibly small. I know that we think that card collecting revolves around us. But most of our taste is so esoteric that it doesn't even scratch the surface of all card collectors.

Having said that, the vast majority of card collectors use an SMR rather than VCP and they gauge their prices accordingly. These collectors may not buy or sell at those prices. But they do compare those prices.

The next time you go to a card show, check out the number of dealers in 50's and 60's cards. Then check out the number of dealers selling shiny, new cards and unopened wax. Then check th enumber of vintage dealers. Once again, the vintage collector is in a great minority comparatively.

The other thing that may not be considered. A lot of cards are being sold off ebay. There are many dealers who make a very good living at card shows. These prices are never reflected in the VCP, but the dealers are making these sales and they realize what their market is. Hence, the SMR flourishes.

Plus, one extra note. I have found many errors in the VCP. There are many auctions that are not listed. Plus the way that the average price of the card is figured, amazes me, and I have a Masters + in mathematics.

You use whatever resources that you want to buy AND sell your cards. But more knowledge is always better than less.

Cy

[JoeyF]

Originally Posted by Cy2009

Joey,

Most people don't use VCP. The fact of the matter is that only a portion of the people on Net 54 use VCP. And the number of collectors here at Net 54 as compared with all the collectors is incredibly small. I know that we think that card collecting revolves around us. But most of our taste is so esoteric that it doesn't even scratch the surface of all card collectors.

Having said that, the vast majority of card collectors use an SMR rather than VCP and they gauge their prices accordingly. These collectors may not buy or sell at those prices. But they do compare those prices.

The next time you go to a card show, check out the number of dealers in 50's and 60's cards. Then check out the number of dealers selling shiny, new cards and unopened wax. Then check th enumber of vintage dealers. Once again, the vintage collector is in a great minority comparatively.

The other thing that may not be considered. A lot of cards are being sold off ebay. There are many dealers who make a very good living at card shows. These prices are never reflected in the VCP, but the dealers are making these sales and they realize what their market is. Hence, the SMR flourishes.

Plus, one extra note. I have found many errors in the VCP. There are many auctions that are not listed. Plus the way that the average price of the card is figured, amazes me, and I have a Masters + in mathematics.

You use whatever resources that you want to buy AND sell your cards. But more knowledge is always better than less.

Cy

thanks for the info cy. Your point is very interesting and makes alot of sense. I remember when i first started collecting and i was arguing with some other members about the validity of the smr and they all said that collectors go by the vcp and that the smr was a fluke. But what i was trying to explain was that if the vcp didnt exist collectors and sellers would need a general idea of what their cards were worth hence the smr. I guess its up to the buyer to decide what the card is worth to THEM not what some magazine says its worth.

[bbsports]

The SMR & VCP and you can add Beckett in that mix are only used as guide prices and nothing else. The prices are not set in stone. For example, certain VCP cards may be marked down cheaper than other VCP cards because perhaps that cheaper PSA 5 had a wrinkle in the card compared to another PSA 5 of that player priced by VCP card in the same grade that was a nicer looking card. If a card has great eye appeal, matches the grade, & even if the price is over the price guide price or VCP price, that person will buy the card, especially if that person hasn't seen that card available for a long time.

[drc]

I used to use Beckett and SCD as general pricing references. No one took the prices as literally correct. They did tell which cards in a set were more expensive than others.

Though with modern cards at least, Beckett prices were directly used to determine listed sales prices.

I don't think I've ever looked at an SMR.

[sycks22]

SMR is a shot in the dark. Some cards sell for well over such at many OJ's and a bunch sell for under. I picked up a E92 Young PSA 5 (SMR $4,000) for $1,250 and looking at a Delahanty OJ the SMR is about 30% of what the cards usually go for. The post war cards are a little closer.

[HRBAKER]

Does the SMR still list prices for cards in grades that haven't been graded yet?

[drc]

I'm a regular lurker on the PSA board, and it doesn't appear that even PSA enthusiasts take the SMR prices seriously. They often criticize and joke about the prices.

In short, when someone asks why do people advocate SMR prices, I'm unaware that anyone sincerely does. As a marketing and sales tool, maybe, but I said sincerely.


Though, as I mentioned with the Beckett and SCD price guides, a price guide doesn't have to be accurate to be useful in some way.

[kcohen]

As a price guide, I think SMR is crap, at least for pre-war. But my personal opinion is irrelevant inasmuch as others use it as a resource, which gives it "validity." What Cy wrote is reflective of my experiences as a dealer at shows. Many dealers and customers cite SMR prices. So whether they are based in any market reality or not, they can definitely have an effect on the price for which you may be able to buy or sell a given card.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by kcohen

Many dealers and customers cite SMR prices. So whether they are based in any market reality or not, they can definitely have an effect on the price for which you may be able to buy or sell a given card.

Dealers cite it to get more money for their items...Customers cite it to bring outrageous prices down to a more realistic level.. Basically, it's only cited by people who know that the SMR is BS, but use is as fact when it's beneficial to them..

[T206DK]

I'm just curious if anyone on this board has ever been solicited by PSA for information regarding sale prices of cards. I have a pretty large network of dealer friends nationwide in the card and memorabilia sectors and not a one has ever been asked to submit any data to PSA; Not even the ones that were able to send in customer cards for grading. I don't use the VCP so I can't speak about that really. Other than to say it probably offers more real time sales information than you'll ever get from PSA.
In my opinion the prices are a bunk!! I rarely sell anything for SMR value, and I rarely buy anything for SMR value. The SMR is mainly for the advertisers you see who pay for space in the magazine. They have the $$ and the inventory to drive the market wherever they want it to go, whenever they want ....all with the help of the SMR. If you look at the prices in the SMR for certain sets they haven't changed much since SMR has been in existence either, which tells me that they are not a good guide for what a person is willing to pay for a particular card in 2012. ( In my opinion cards have only intrinsic value and are not really worth the prices you see in the guides. they are only "worth" what someone is willing to pay for them at a given moment. It's unfortunate that loads of dealers don't get this fact, thus we have massive amounts overpriced inventory clogging up Ebay...some of which has been for sale by some dealers since 2002 according to my brother....thats 10 years to you and me .

[kcohen]

I agree that that is often the case, David. More than once, a potential buyer has cited a SMR quote on a particular card. My reply is to ask them to bring me as many as they can find of that card and I'll buy them all at the SMR price.

[Delray Vintage]

I like Vcp because it is much better for 19 th century, where smr is so far off it is useless on old judge. I would pay anyone smr prices for a Psa 7 for old judges but smr never changes. For example I own the only Connie Mack OJ 7, and they lowered the price from 10k to 9k for no apparent reason. They use their listing below their chart to basically tell the latest prices but rarely update their list prices. Vcp is also good for frequently sold issues for all years.

[majordanby]

anyone here know what SMR prices are based on? VCP is not a literal price guide (unlike beckett or SMR which provide one value with no uncertainty for each card), although the consumer can use it as one. All VCP is doing is giving you the distribution of actual sales prices of a card - based on that distribution, you make the assessment of what price you want to buy or sell a card (usually, the user takes the mean value over a given time period). I'm not entirely sure what SMR uses to judge the price of a card.

Personally, I dont use SMR. I use market value - and market value is based on realized prices - and i can obtain realized prices based on, amongst a number of sources, VCP's services. Were in a capitalist economy - the market, based on the tug and pull of demand and supply, determines the price...or, at least that's how it should theoretically work.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by novakjr

Personally, I'll read the SMR magazine for the articles, but never once looked at the prices.

Sounds like the same thing a lot of guys said about Playboy magazines...

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by Fred

Sounds like the same thing a lot of guys said about Playboy magazines...

Honestly. Although, I'll admit that my opinion is a bit skewed because I'm not really a graded card type guy. Sure I've got some, but it's more by coincidence, because a graded card just happened to catch my eye when it fell into my price range..

I will admit that I did get sucked into the whole set registry at one point, and put together about a quarter of the 77-78 topps baseketball set in 8 or higher before realizing that it really wasn't what I wanted to do. I didn't use the SMR once during that time, I did use the poop-report alot though... I gotta get around to getting rid of those one of these days..

[Blitzu]

Nothing.




No more to say about that.

[Rich Klein]

The SMR is probably just fine for reasonably heavily traded mainstream cards. For more thinly traded cards, it is just a guide.

BTW -- Beckett just released a "graded card price guide" book --- I did see it at the Book Store but did not look at it (sealed in plastic) to see what sets were covered. This replaces the graded card magazine that they use to publish

Rich