Wander Franco...

[JustinD]

Yeesh...that 11-year 182 million contract two years ago is looking like a rough investment at this moment. Hope the morals clause is solid.

Suspended in June for being a jerk and suspended now for possibly being much, much worse.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Yeesh...that 11-year 182 million contract two years ago is looking like a rough investment at this moment. Hope the morals clause is solid.

Suspended in June for being a jerk and suspended now for possibly being much, much worse.

Not suspended (yet), but placed on the restricted list. Personally I have yet to see anything incriminating but I'm glad MLB seems to be taking it seriously.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Not suspended (yet), but placed on the restricted list. Personally I have yet to see anything incriminating but I'm glad MLB seems to be taking it seriously.

There are numerous incriminating photos with the minor on Twitter which is why it came to light so quickly. Granted, innocent until proven guilty...however there's a lot of stuff out there as far as photo and video evidence at the moment. Going to be a long way to get this one cleared.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by JustinD

There are numerous incriminating photos with the minor on Twitter which is why it came to light so quickly. Granted, innocent until proven guilty...however there's a lot of stuff out there as far as photo and video evidence at the moment. Going to be a long way to get this one cleared.

Yes, I saw those photos but do we know who that is and how old they are? I'm reserving judgement until I know that's not his cousin or something. If that's been determined then I agree it looks very bad

[G1911]

Trial by social media is not good. Let’s see actual evidence, and reserve judgement until said evidence.

His life will be destroyed no matter what now. Hell, Bauer’s accusers phone didn’t even cast doubt on her claims, it proved she absolutely lied and he was innocent. And he’s still blackballed and considered guilty for political expedience by a ton of the population anyways. An evidentiary basis and due process are wonderful things, just less juicy than believing every Twitter claim.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Along with the curve ball and injuries, I guess potential bad behavior is one more reason not to anoint a kid at age 17 and put a ton of money into his cards. People were just gaga over Wander as a minor league prospect.

[Seven]

The allegations are startling to say the least. I hope it's not true. It would certainly be one of the biggest scandals we've seen with a baseball player in a while.

On the baseball side: I'm interested to see how the league handles this, if true, and what is done. Bauer got the book thrown at him, and is currently pitching in Japan, over domestic violence allegations. Not saying he did or didn't commit the act, but he was never found guilty in the courts, and has pretty much been blackballed by the league, at least for now.

I think this scenario might be worse. Taking advantage of a minor, if true, might end Franco's career.

[mrreality68]

Hope it’s not true great playing skills and potential

If true should be out of baseball and in jail.

And if true I hope the player’s association does not “protect him”

[bk400]

A lot of Wander Franco inventory on eBay all of a sudden. Can get his ungraded base rookie cards for around $1 now.

[philliesfan]

How much was his base rookie card going for before this?

I reserve judgement until the facts come out. That said, if it is true he is a pos and should be in jail.

[butchie_t]

Use to be one worried about injuries early in a players career. My how times have changed... And not for the better.

SMDH.

Butch

[Peter_Spaeth]

The age of consent in the Dominican is 18. It would not seem he could even claim he didn't know, or that the girl lied to him. Apparently there was a second complaint against him by a minor as well. If true and this takes its expected trajectory, what a waste. Not to be flippant about an obviously serious potential crime, but I am reminded of the Croce song Five Short Minutes.

[todeen]

Today he was placed on Admin Leave, with the expectation he will not return this season. Considering this is a legal matter, I would be shocked if he returns next season. I did find it interesting though, he will continue to get service time accrual and paid until the matter is settled. I understand payment, but accruing service time should not be part of the deal.

His card prices are tanking. What he did was worse than Bauer.

Bauer is blackballed because he seems to make poor life choices. One can easily deduct that his drone/hand accident hurt the Indians playoff hopes in 2016. If he had been healthy, they might have had a better stronger bullpen; Andrew Miller was superman, but even he was tired running on fumes. Bauer pitched a loss in Game 2 of the WS because he couldn't throw off speed.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by todeen

Today he was placed on Admin Leave, with the expectation he will not return this season. Considering this is a legal matter, I would be shocked if he returns next season. I did find it interesting though, he will continue to get service time accrual and paid until the matter is settled. I understand payment, but accruing service time should not be part of the deal.

His card prices are tanking. What he did was worse than Bauer.

Bauer is blackballed because he seems to make poor life choices. One can easily deduct that his drone/hand accident hurt the Indians playoff hopes in 2016. If he had been healthy, they might have had a better stronger bullpen; Andrew Miller was superman, but even he was tired running on fumes. Bauer pitched a loss in Game 2 of the WS because he couldn't throw off speed.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

I could not find it if a player is on Administrative Leave is he still paid by the team or not?

[todeen]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I could not find it if a player is on Administrative Leave is he still paid by the team or not?

in the Fox Sports article I read, it says that payment and service time accrual was the agreed protocol in the 2015 Domestic Violence agreement signed between MLB and MLBPA.

"MLB and the players' association agreed to the joint domestic violence policy in 2015. It allows a player to be placed on administrative leave for seven days but allows for MLB to request extensions while it investigates.

A player continues to receive pay and accrue major league service while on administrative leave."

https://foxsports.onelink.me/SY6x/4s6t4vpo

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[bk400]

Originally Posted by todeen

Today he was placed on Admin Leave, with the expectation he will not return this season. Considering this is a legal matter, I would be shocked if he returns next season. I did find it interesting though, he will continue to get service time accrual and paid until the matter is settled. I understand payment, but accruing service time should not be part of the deal.

His card prices are tanking. What he did was worse than Bauer.

Bauer is blackballed because he seems to make poor life choices. One can easily deduct that his drone/hand accident hurt the Indians playoff hopes in 2016. If he had been healthy, they might have had a better stronger bullpen; Andrew Miller was superman, but even he was tired running on fumes. Bauer pitched a loss in Game 2 of the WS because he couldn't throw off speed.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

I am a total novice when it comes to collecting for profit, so I would love to understand the logic behind those people who bought his refractor rookie cards for $200 to $300 over the past three days. Was the view that he would be exonerated and his reputation would remain intact? Seems like there really should be no bid. I mean, you can get Lawrence Taylor rookie cards for a fraction of what they should be worth because he got involved in the underage stuff. And this was after he made the HOF and was consensus top 1-3 as the best defender in NFL history.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bk400

I am a total novice when it comes to collecting for profit, so I would love to understand the logic behind those people who bought his refractor rookie cards for $200 to $300 over the past three days. Was the view that he would be exonerated and his reputation would remain intact? Seems like there really should be no bid. I mean, you can get Lawrence Taylor rookie cards for a fraction of what they should be worth because he got involved in the underage stuff. And this was after he made the HOF and was consensus top 1-3 as the best defender in NFL history.

Lawrence Taylor 9’s regularly sell for over 400 bucks and were pushing a grand during the pandemic run-up. That’s not bad for an 80’s era mass produced Rookie card IMO. Especially for a non-QB not named Jerry Rice.

Collectors and fans have short memories when it comes to generational talents.

Whether this Franco kid qualifies for that title eventually, is an entirely different question.

[mrreality68]

I do not like that the players get paid while on administrative leave. For the first week I think they should get paid but if they need to extend it then that means they found something that potentially validates the claim.
To me the money should go in an escrow account and then if the player is cleared they get the money.
If the player is found guilty and the player will be suspended or whatever then the money is forfeited just like when they are suspend they lose that pay.

Never happen of course since the player association protects their players even during the worst of situations like domestic violence.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bk400

I am a total novice when it comes to collecting for profit, so I would love to understand the logic behind those people who bought his refractor rookie cards for $200 to $300 over the past three days. Was the view that he would be exonerated and his reputation would remain intact? Seems like there really should be no bid. I mean, you can get Lawrence Taylor rookie cards for a fraction of what they should be worth because he got involved in the underage stuff. And this was after he made the HOF and was consensus top 1-3 as the best defender in NFL history.

I suspect it is more that these people may not have been following the news. I doubt any informed person is investing in Wander now, his career is over independent of actual guilt.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

I do not like that the players get paid while on administrative leave. For the first week I think they should get paid but if they need to extend it then that means they found something that potentially validates the claim.

To me the money should go in an escrow account and then if the player is cleared they get the money.

If the player is found guilty and the player will be suspended or whatever then the money is forfeited just like when they are suspend they lose that pay.



Never happen of course since the player association protects their players even during the worst of situations like domestic violence.

Admin leave outside of baseball has two paths, with pay and without. Without pay usually means you have done something against the company you work for, or is being used as a consequence of your actions which you admitted - or were caught red handed.

Leave with pay is because our Justice system stands behind "innocent until proven guilty." It would be totally wrong to remove his source of income that he needs to pay bail, lawyers, court fees etc while trying to prove his innocence. I'm sure his contract has some statement that the team can seek reparations if he breaks the terms of his contract. I'm sure there is some form of morality clause included seeing that Domestic Violence policy was signed in 2015. Rays can then take him to court to recover wages they paid during this time he was under investigation.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Lawrence Taylor 9’s regularly sell for over 400 bucks and were pushing a grand during the pandemic run-up. That’s not bad for an 80’s era mass produced Rookie card IMO. Especially for a non-QB not named Jerry Rice.

Collectors and fans have short memories when it comes to generational talents.

Whether this Franco kid qualifies for that title eventually, is an entirely different question.

OJ rookies aren't being given away, are they?

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by bk400

I am a total novice when it comes to collecting for profit, so I would love to understand the logic behind those people who bought his refractor rookie cards for $200 to $300 over the past three days. Was the view that he would be exonerated and his reputation would remain intact? Seems like there really should be no bid. I mean, you can get Lawrence Taylor rookie cards for a fraction of what they should be worth because he got involved in the underage stuff. And this was after he made the HOF and was consensus top 1-3 as the best defender in NFL history.

People are often blind to logic. These are the same flippers or fans that are thinking they can buy the dip and get a card at a fraction of the price and it will return to normal. It's pure and utter speculation gambling. Yes, they are selling for 300 bucks in the dump off, however these exact same cards were selling for a minimum of 10 times that just weeks earlier.

If you are a novice and think he really could return, buying a 4-5k card on August 10th for just 300 bucks on August 17th seems like a steal. Really I see no chance for that holding as it dies down, but until a completion comes to the case people will still be trying to make a buck.

Hell, people are still buying Henry Ruggs III cards for 300 bucks if they are rare enough, look it up. People are just odd.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by JustinD

People are often blind to logic. These are the same flippers or fans that are thinking they can buy the dip and get a card at a fraction of the price and it will return to normal. It's pure and utter speculation gambling. Yes, they are selling for 300 bucks in the dump off, however these exact same cards were selling for a minimum of 10 times that just weeks earlier.



If you are a novice and think he really could return, buying a 4-5k card on August 10th for just 300 bucks on August 17th seems like a steal. Really I see no chance for that holding as it dies down, but until a completion comes to the case people will still be trying to make a buck.



Hell, people are still buying Henry Ruggs III cards for 300 bucks if they are rare enough, look it up. People are just odd.

Second this opinion.

I would not "buy the dip" in this case. What a stupid term, I've never really liked it while talking about cards. They do exist, but this one feels very different than a sophomore slump. The 2008 - 2013 dip years had some fantastic deals if you had money to spend.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

More a falling knife than a dip.

[Shoeless Moe]

What about Kobe "the Rapist" Bryant and Ben "the Rapist" Rothleisburger.

Their stuff still goes for a premium.

Oh that's right.....if you pay your victim/accuser off then it lessens it.

Both scumbags.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

What about Kobe "the Rapist" Bryant and Ben "the Rapist" Rothleisburger.



Their stuff still goes for a premium.



Oh that's right.....if you pay your victim/accuser off then it lessens it.



Both scumbags.

Not disagreeing with you. But I don't collect those sports. As a Reds fan, I chose not to collect Pete Rose. The more I hear about him, the less I can stomach him as an athlete.

I also think MLB Commissioner is trying to be less forgiving than football and basketball. What he did to Bauer for lesser charges appears to be where Franco is headed.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by todeen

Second this opinion.

I would not "buy the dip" in this case. What a stupid term, I've never really liked it while talking about cards. They do exist, but this one feels very different than a sophomore slump. The 2008 - 2013 dip years had some fantastic deals if you had money to spend.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

I used "buy the dip" to infer sarcasm toward the card investor crowd, not in a real way. I love to read Wall Street Bets on reddit for a laugh and it's now ingrained in my memory as a fun noob identifier.

[rjackson44]

theres a guy that paid 200 k for some orange super fractor,wonder how he feels .oh boy

[packs]

If it comes out that these rumors are only rumors I don't see it staining Franco long term. Especially if he continues to produce when he's back. Otherwise, any substantiation of the rumors will cost him his career.

He isn't at a point in his career where he can be compared to Kobe Bryant or Mike Tyson or anyone else like that. Even Jerry Seinfeld has managed to make people forget he dated a 17 year old high school senior while he was 39 years old.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

If it comes out that these rumors are only rumors I don't see it staining Franco long term. Especially if he continues to produce when he's back. Otherwise, any substantiation of the rumors will cost him his career.

He isn't at a point in his career where he can be compared to Kobe Bryant or Mike Tyson or anyone else like that. Even Jerry Seinfeld has managed to make people forget he dated a 17 year old high school senior while he was 39 years old.

It's the post-factual world, the narrative is set. Bauer's case turned into not only a not guilty, but the accusers own phone proved that he was completely innocent and she lied. It doesn't matter. He's still kicked out of the league, dumped on, and half+ don't care whatsoever because the idea he is guilty is more comeaptivel with their desire and worldview. Once the media has him labelled a pedo, nothing will exonerate his reputation. He could be the most innocent man on Earth but it wouldn't matter.

Kobe, Tyson, Seinfeld are from a different time.

[packs]

Bauer I don’t think is an apt comparison only because he admitted to the activities described just not that they weren’t consensual. I think his banishment has a lot to do with public opinions about his interests. Whether that’s appropriate or not is up for debate. But I’m not sure there’s much in common.

[Peter_Spaeth]

For better or worse, even best case, I think it's also going to be more difficult for a guy who (as I understand it) speaks limited English and will be perceived by many people as foreign to resurrect himself with the American public. Kobe, Tyson, Seinfeld were iconic figures. Not so a Spanish-speaking guy from the Dominican.

[packs]

It’s baseball though and he is one of the most exciting players in the game and seen as a generational talent. If he is fully exonerated I don’t know what people would hold on to after he’s exonerated.

If he did do something illegal then I think he can look at Luke Heimlich and see his future in baseball.

[G1911]

I will sell Wander’s for only 50% of their value one month ago to those who see a redemption story. Submit your wantlists

[packs]

You have to do something wrong to redeem yourself though. If this turns out to be a made up story for a money grab or simply the rumor it's described as, I'm not so sure his career is over or that fans won't welcome him back.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

You have to do something wrong to redeem yourself though. If this turns out to be a made up story for a money grab or simply the rumor it's described as, I'm not so sure his career is over or that fans won't welcome him back.

You have a greater faith in people's ability to choose to deal with actual facts and evidence rather than narratives than I do. We shall see what happens here.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I will sell Wander’s for only 50% of their value one month ago to those who see a redemption story. Submit your wantlists

Anyone want a gem mint Atomic Refractor "true" rookie?

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by todeen

Not disagreeing with you. But I don't collect those sports. As a Reds fan, I chose not to collect Pete Rose. The more I hear about him, the less I can stomach him as an athlete.

I also think MLB Commissioner is trying to be less forgiving than football and basketball. What he did to Bauer for lesser charges appears to be where Franco is headed.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

I’m the same way Tim… from Cincinnati and a huge Reds fan. Always thought Rose was scum but he was like a god in the city when I was a kid, and that was after his banishment. I never cared for Rose but had to respect him for the record and what he meant to Cincinnati. I have just continually lost respect for him for all sorts of reasons since he finally admitted to gambling. What’s worse than that though is when I learned he was more-or-less Wander before Wander.

[Peter_Spaeth]

How clear was the evidence against Rose regarding underage girls? I thought it was based on some questionable hearsay only? I know he did admit to a relationship with someone just above the age of consent, which though distasteful to most was not criminal if his version is credited as to her age at the time. But the other stuff about 12 year olds at spring training seemed dubious.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Anyone want a gem mint Atomic Refractor "true" rookie?

Best I can do is a peso

[Peter_Spaeth]

At a peso, I will paso.

[mrreality68]

Missing for days

Finally turns up and gets interrogated and now he is under arrest in the DR.

Not looking good for him as a person or for his playing career

[BobbyStrawberry]

I think he will join Trevor Bauer in the "never will play in MLB again" club.

[Snapolit1]

https://twitter.com/gehrenbergdfs/st...82337137504284

[G1911]

Hopefully, if he’s going to pay the price, Franco, unlike Bauer, is actually guilty and the evidence doesn’t turn out to exonerate him.

[Carter08]

Franco and Bauer should captain competing all star teams of players who no one other than disturbed contrarians would defend. Marcell Ozuna projected to be a first round pick.

[BobbyStrawberry]

This story keeps getting worse and worse.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...on-mlb-details

[G1911]

" "My girl," Franco allegedly wrote in Spanish. "If my team realizes this, it could cause problems for me. It is a rule for all teams that we cannot talk to minors, and yet I took the risk and I loved it." "


" Franco wrote: "I would like you to forget everything you have learned to raise you my way."

She responded: "And what is your way? Without love? Without respect?"

Franco replied: "There was more to it but you're just a girl and you don't know how to get along with me, that's why you failed, but I'll give you only one chance, you must be only for me. Don't look at anyone, I know you've been with someone else, but no one will know how to use you the way I want." "

If these messages are authentic and real, then he is definitely guilty and needs to be locked up.

[bk400]

A Wander Franco 2022 Red Refractor 4/5 PSA 10 is up for sale on eBay right now for $800 . I struggle to understand how there is any bid for any of his cards right now.

[todeen]

Article on The Athletic surveyed immigration lawyers about Franco's chance to get a visa to return to the US. They said extremely unlikely. Immigration officials don't care about guilty or not guilty for non-citizens. They care about protecting US citizens. The lawyers don't think he'll play again.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk