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  #11  
Old 07-07-2018, 02:38 PM
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This was copied from the correct BST section because it has some good information in it. An informed collector is the best collector.
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2018, 09:49 PM
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I gotta admit, it appears to pass the eye test and apparently passes the nose test. Interesting image to say the least.

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  #13  
Old 07-08-2018, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SetBuilder View Post
The mount is from Charles A. Millard's (b. 1834 - d. 1890-91) studio. He was in business as Powelson & Millard until Powelson left the studio sometime after 1880. The 1880-81 Detroit business directory lists Millard at 224 Woodward Ave. It just so happens that the Wolverines played at Recreation Park, which would be just a block east of Woodward.
Detroit photographers during the late 19th century has been a longtime interest of mine, so please excuse me going overboard on this response. I began studying them while researching Tomlinson Studio for an article in OC magazine (2007) and have continued to learn more as time and resources permit. Over 1/3 of the 34 photographers with a Detroit address during the late 1880s were located near each other on Woodward Avenue including Millard and Tomlinson. With respect to Recreation Park, these Studios were 1.4 miles away from Detroit's ball park.

Regarding the history of Mr. Charles A. Millard, he purchased his studio from Powelson in 1879 and would run it until his passing in January of 1891. Millard Studio would continue under his brother-in-law Mr. Lyman B. Avery until 1894 when the Studio, equipment, and negatives were purchased by Huntington & Clark.

I have a great image from 1894 that shows several of the studios.



The image captures the businesses from 212 Woodward (far right) to 240 Woodward and beyond (240 Woodward being the six story Schwankovsky music store bldg. at left).


So in this image you can see following Photographers / Photographic Supplies Store:
  • 212 Woodward: Alfred G. McMichael - Photographer (Directory indicates McMichael at 210 but moved to 212 by time photo was taken)
  • 214 Woodward: Joseph Kirsch - Photographer
  • 216 Woodward: George R. Angell - Photographic Supplies
  • 222 Woodward: Charles H. Smith - Photographer
  • 224 Woodward: Huntington & Clark - Photographers (Store front reads "Millard Photographer" with "Successors To" added above)
  • 236 Woodward: Edwin H Husher - Photographer (has "Tomlinson Photographs" sign on side of store)



Close-Up (with a little higher contrast). . .


You can see C. H. Smith advertising "Life Size Picture Free with Purchase of Dozen Cabinets". You can also see a guy making prints if you look close at the middle of the image. That could be Charles H. Smith himself. Next door is 224 Woodward, home of Huntington & Clark Photographers (Proprietors of Millard Studio).

Circling back to your CDV . . .
Tomlinson sold the Detroit team pictures across North America, advertised in various papers after Detroit won the Championship. They marketed the images well and sold quite a few (many survive in the hobby today). Your 2nd gen print (picture of a picture) could have been created in secret by someone at Millard prior to 1894 (when the Millard name ceased) or could have been created sometime later (late 19th century, early 20th century) and simply placed on an old mount from a Detroit studio (in this case, an old Millard CDV). It is a neat piece but many collectors shy away from such items (similar to the non-period prints created from Goodwin negatives). Albumen paper was last commercially produced and sold in 1929 although photographers can still create albumen prints following the same 19th century procedures with similar but different paper.

Manny, can you share how you obtained the CDV?
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- N333 SF Hess Newsboys League cards (all teams)
- Pre ATC Merger (1890 and prior) cigarette packs and redemption coupons from all manufacturers

Last edited by Joe_G.; 07-08-2018 at 01:17 AM.
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  #14  
Old 07-08-2018, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_G. View Post
Circling back to your CDV . . .
Impressive research Joe!
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  #15  
Old 07-08-2018, 07:35 AM
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research should be your middle and last names When do you begin on Jimmy Hoffa and his Detroit connections?

BTW - I have run into quite a few pirated images from the 1880's while collecting women base ball players and non-sport images of luminaries and hooligans. Not at all uncommon.
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  #16  
Old 07-09-2018, 02:53 AM
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The CDV is from the 1800s. The microscopic images are of an albumen print.

Last edited by drcy; 07-09-2018 at 03:02 AM.
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  #17  
Old 07-09-2018, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drcy View Post
The CDV is from the 1800s. The microscopic images are of an albumen print.
Hello David, thanks for chiming in. I'd agree that the mount is likely an original from Millard and dates to the 1800s. But the albumen print, is there a reason you definitively date it to the 1800s when albumen paper was sold through 1929? Just curious.
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COLLECTOR OF:
- 19th century Detroit memorabilia and cards with emphasis on Goodwin & Co. issues ( N172 / N173 / N175 ) and Tomlinson cabinets
- N333 SF Hess Newsboys League cards (all teams)
- Pre ATC Merger (1890 and prior) cigarette packs and redemption coupons from all manufacturers
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  #18  
Old 07-09-2018, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_G. View Post
Detroit photographers during the late 19th century has been a longtime interest of mine, so please excuse me going overboard on this response. I began studying them while researching Tomlinson Studio for an article in OC magazine (2007) and have continued to learn more as time and resources permit. Over 1/3 of the 34 photographers with a Detroit address during the late 1880s were located near each other on Woodward Avenue including Millard and Tomlinson. With respect to Recreation Park, these Studios were 1.4 miles away from Detroit's ball park.

Regarding the history of Mr. Charles A. Millard, he purchased his studio from Powelson in 1879 and would run it until his passing in January of 1891. Millard Studio would continue under his brother-in-law Mr. Lyman B. Avery until 1894 when the Studio, equipment, and negatives were purchased by Huntington & Clark.

I have a great image from 1894 that shows several of the studios.



The image captures the businesses from 212 Woodward (far right) to 240 Woodward and beyond (240 Woodward being the six story Schwankovsky music store bldg. at left).


So in this image you can see following Photographers / Photographic Supplies Store:
  • 212 Woodward: Alfred G. McMichael - Photographer (Directory indicates McMichael at 210 but moved to 212 by time photo was taken)
  • 214 Woodward: Joseph Kirsch - Photographer
  • 216 Woodward: George R. Angell - Photographic Supplies
  • 222 Woodward: Charles H. Smith - Photographer
  • 224 Woodward: Huntington & Clark - Photographers (Store front reads "Millard Photographer" with "Successors To" added above)
  • 236 Woodward: Edwin H Husher - Photographer (has "Tomlinson Photographs" sign on side of store)



Close-Up (with a little higher contrast). . .


You can see C. H. Smith advertising "Life Size Picture Free with Purchase of Dozen Cabinets". You can also see a guy making prints if you look close at the middle of the image. That could be Charles H. Smith himself. Next door is 224 Woodward, home of Huntington & Clark Photographers (Proprietors of Millard Studio).

Circling back to your CDV . . .
Tomlinson sold the Detroit team pictures across North America, advertised in various papers after Detroit won the Championship. They marketed the images well and sold quite a few (many survive in the hobby today). Your 2nd gen print (picture of a picture) could have been created in secret by someone at Millard prior to 1894 (when the Millard name ceased) or could have been created sometime later (late 19th century, early 20th century) and simply placed on an old mount from a Detroit studio (in this case, an old Millard CDV). It is a neat piece but many collectors shy away from such items (similar to the non-period prints created from Goodwin negatives). Albumen paper was last commercially produced and sold in 1929 although photographers can still create albumen prints following the same 19th century procedures with similar but different paper.

Manny, can you share how you obtained the CDV?
Joe:

As always, amazingly thorough research!

Kevin
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  #19  
Old 07-09-2018, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_G. View Post
Hello David, thanks for chiming in. I'd agree that the mount is likely an original from Millard and dates to the 1800s. But the albumen print, is there a reason you definitively date it to the 1800s when albumen paper was sold through 1929? Just curious.
Whatever the theoretical possibility, the photographer of such a photo wouldn't make an albumen print in the 20th century. Many theoretical possibilities and arguments are pie-in-the-sky, meaning they are so highly improbable that they can be dismissed in the real world situation. I'd bet that a 20th-century baseball albumen photo doesn't exist.

Last edited by drcy; 07-09-2018 at 12:16 PM.
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  #20  
Old 07-09-2018, 03:44 PM
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Joe: I don't know much about photography, but couldn't anyone take the photo from one mount and place on another mount (ie, off Tomlinson and place on another mount )? Looks like the same photo that has the Kalamazoo Bats mount. .
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