Has anyone ever seen a T206 with Name, Team & Jersey lettering missing on Front?

[Mac927]

I am looking for pictures/scans for validation that these exist. A recently discovered T206 collection contained a card like this of a HOFer. Grading companies won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. If others like this are out there then that will help with getting this card in a slab. I figured if they do exist collectors in this forum would most definitely have some in their collection. Considering there are an estimated 2-5 million T206s in existence today there has to be others like it. Thank you.

[swarmee]

Sounds like it might have missed the brown color pass, and therefore would be considered a scrap or a factory printing error. If that's the case, the best you'll get from most companies is an Authentic with one noting the peculiarities on the flip so people realize that it's a scrap.

Other questions:
1) Was it soaked out of a scrapbook?
2) Is there any damage to the area where the name and team would be that could indicate it was rubbed off?
3) Is the team logo brown?

[x2drich2000]

Since you indicate the grading companies won't touch it, what exactly did they say when you tried to submit it? Did they say it is altered? questionable authenticity? I would recommend posting a clear scan of the front and back as members on this board are far more knowledgeable about T206s than the grading companies.

Here is thread with a few scans discussing missing name/team designations. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=191524

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Mac927

I am looking for pictures/scans for validation that these exist. A recently discovered T206 collection contained a card like this of a HOFer. Grading companies won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. If others like this are out there then that will help with getting this card in a slab. I figured if they do exist collectors in this forum would most definitely have some in their collection. Considering there are an estimated 2-5 million T206s in existence today there has to be others like it. Thank you.

Have a AH submit it, seriously I have seen this work more than once.

Most grading companies won't touch them because people were altering them and they can't tell the difference between a altered one and a real one.

Post some pictures.

[swarmee]

Should have also asked the question of which back it has. If it's a scrap, it's likely there are other known ones with the same back.

[ullmandds]

I used to own this one I was able to get graded...with some forensic help from david...although it does not appear to have missed a brown pass was just missing the name and team in the sub caption.

[RCMcKenzie]

Here's an old thread on T206 populations. I'd guess there are between 1 and 2 million. 5 million T206 would mean there are 3.5 million in non-collector hands.
www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=85496

Here's a captionless Hannifan that would grade MC...

[Luke]

You should post the card if you can. There are a few reasons why this could have happened and most are post-factory alterations. If you have a legit one, that would be cool to see.

[Gradedcardman]

They may incapsulate the card but will not make a note regarding the color missing on the flip. PSA doesn’t do any oddity encapsulating and SGC, I have heard has stopped. I am with Luke and would like to see the card. It will be pretty clear if it is legit.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Gradedcardman

They may incapsulate the card but will not make a note regarding the color missing on the flip. PSA doesn’t do any oddity encapsulating and SGC, I have heard has stopped. I am with Luke and would like to see the card. It will be pretty clear if it is legit.

SGC will still grade oddities, but will only grade them A and won't mention anything about the oddity on the flip.

[Gradedcardman]

Originally Posted by Sean

SGC will still grade oddities, but will only grade them A and won't mention anything about the oddity on the flip.

Sean made my point a little clearer. Thanks !!

[Mac927]

I'm working on getting extremely high res scans so there is no question of the authenticity of the card.

I was expecting others to show their No Name/No Team/No Jersey Name cards! This cant be the only 1 in existence!? Thank you Pete for your image!

Please show them and hopefully they are slabbed and that would help my case!

[Jobu]

Mac - did we meet at the National at the REA booth? If so, I looked at this card and it seemed legit to me.

There is another missing caption card in post 74 of this thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=oddities

The guys to ask about others are Johnny V and Chris B. I will make sure they see this thread.

And to add a note on caption printing, I think they were usually printed separate from the player's image. There are a number of caption shift errors where the rest of the brown layer is exactly where it should be.

[atx840]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Mac - did we meet at the National at the REA booth? If so, I looked at this card and it seemed legit to me.

The card at the National was def legit, likely missing the brown layer. One I use to own showing the brown caption & jersey lettering.

[Jobu]

And there is a card showing the caption being printed at the same time as the brown layer!!

[danmckee]

Yes I have one at least one maybe 2. One of my proofs have no team or name as well

Dan Mckee

[Mac927]

Dan,

Can you post a picture of the 2 you have? Are they slabbed or raw? I'm curious the grading company if slabbed. I am determined to get it in a holder with a numerical grade if possible as the card I have is not scrap or hand cut.

My pictures should be posted this week after I get my hi res scans.

Thank you everyone for your input so far

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Mac927

Dan,

Can you post a picture of the 2 you have? Are they slabbed or raw? I'm curious the grading company if slabbed. I am determined to get it in a holder with a numerical grade if possible as the card I have is not scrap or hand cut.

My pictures should be posted this week after I get my hi res scans.

Thank you everyone for your input so far

If it's legit, I think the grading company, at least, would want secondary opinion before grading it. With the card mentioned earlier in the thread, PSA graded it when outside opinion said it was legit.

For Peter's card, he sent to Scott F and I to examine, we posted our opinion and the PSA graded it.

Here's the auction link:

I'm not the expert on the printing order, but I do believe the "caption" at the bottom of the card was printed separately from the other printing.

[Luke]

Bryan and David, can you guys post an example of a card that makes you think the caption was printed at a different time?

I haven't spent a ton of time thinking about this topic, but the "caption jump" cards make me think the brown color pass was all done at the same time. My Duffy and (I believe) Johnny's Randall as examples.

[Sean]

Sorry for the sideways scan, but I can't get the new computer to work with this site. Here's a card where the brown was printed on the back, along with the caption:

IMG_1534.jpg

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Jobu

Mac - did we meet at the National at the REA booth? If so, I looked at this card and it seemed legit to me.

There is another missing caption card in post 74 of this thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=oddities

The guys to ask about others are Johnny V and Chris B. I will make sure they see this thread.

And to add a note on caption printing, I think they were usually printed separate from the player's image. There are a number of caption shift errors where the rest of the brown layer is exactly where it should be.

Hey Bryan, that card that you referenced in post #74 is actually in the REA that starts tomorrow.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Luke

Bryan and David, can you guys post an example of a card that makes you think the caption was printed at a different time?

I haven't spent a ton of time thinking about this topic, but the "caption jump" cards make me think the brown color pass was all done at the same time. My Duffy and (I believe) Johnny's Randall as examples.

I don't know, and said I don't know. If someone who knows says I was incorrect, they know.

[mrvster]

hello everyone!

great to see Chris B posting again!!!! and all my other expert peers

ahhhhhhhhh , my old Newt, what a beauty!!!!

these "no name" missing team name and caption are very rare......most of the ones are printer's scrap that are legit....


I saw your card Mac, as you consulted me before the national....your card is legit!

my old Abbott is in REA and that one is legit.....

problem:

grading companies WILL NOT GRADE ANY OF THESE AS "NO NAME NO CAPTION"

as, I am going to say it, pussies!!!lol

I spoke ,in person, to one time around 15 years ago to the owner of 1 of the 2 major grading companies....he said "forgers would actually bleach and slide the name off"

i'm not sure how that can be done????? but anyway, brown layer and cation printed simultaneously , except for some proofs and scraps( developmental)

unfortunately, none will be "legitimized" unless graded...

this is why i want to start my own grading company....

Mac, your card is scrap and good, but not in the eyes of PSA and SGC , so, essentially, you are beat!~

only because the "experts" wont grade it...

my future company will

[vthobby]

Mrvster,

Thanks for nice subtle plug on the REA "Ghost" Abbott! I hope it goes to a good home! Its been in 2 great homes as far as I know!

Future grading Co.? I'm a customer already! Hope you are not joking!

Peace, Mike

[Mac927]

In my research this is the VERY FIRST true NO NAME/NO TEAM/NO TEAM ON JERSEY. This is 100% a factory cut card that was inserted into a pack along with the 255 others that were part of this collection. This card IS NOT SCRAP or HAND CUT. No questions about the legitimacy of this being a TRUE NO NAME as you ABSOLUTELY can't bleach and Target a certain color. NO WAY POSSIBLE to remove "PITTSBURGH" on the Jersey without removing the rest of the color.

Thank you to all for you photos but I truly believe that this is the one and only card that is missing a name, team designation and jersey name! I think this is truly a HISTORIC Find and I am so excited to share with ALL of you!

I just need help getting this graded and in a holder!!!

[steve B]

That's an interesting card.

What's good is that it's also probably missing another color. Many missing colors that are real are missing a second color as well.

But there it becomes a puzzle. What other color is missing?
I'd say light blue, because all the ones I see have light blue under the uniform, darkening it and making it dark gray with light blue buttons.
But here it looks like it has light blue under the collar. And the typical dark blue is way too dark to be either.

What's the back?
Another interesting thing that would stand some looking into, is that from just a quick look, there are two different types of this card. The one shown, and the one shown here.
https://t206society.com/product/fred...ont-150-sgc-2/

Put the images side by side and see how many differences you can spot. It's fun.

[Jobu]

Hey Luke,

I think the brown was printed both ways - separately and as part of the full brown layer. I now think I was wrong on the frequency of those two methods (caption printed together with the rest of the layer seems to be more frequent from the errors that I see), but I think they both happened.

The Alperman proof has no name but appears to have the brown (though it is missing the rose/peach). Merkle has a high and crooked caption with the rest of the registration ok. (JV will recognize these ). Atz has the brown layer way off but the caption is where it ought to be.

Originally Posted by Luke

Bryan and David, can you guys post an example of a card that makes you think the caption was printed at a different time?

I haven't spent a ton of time thinking about this topic, but the "caption jump" cards make me think the brown color pass was all done at the same time. My Duffy and (I believe) Johnny's Randall as examples.

[T206.org]

Originally Posted by Mac927

VERY FIRST...

100% a factory cut card that was inserted into a pack...

IS NOT SCRAP or HAND CUT...

No questions about the legitimacy of this being a TRUE NO NAME as you ABSOLUTELY can't bleach and Target a certain color...

NO WAY POSSIBLE to remove "PITTSBURGH" on the Jersey without removing the rest of the color...

one and only...

HISTORIC Find...

Whoa now!

[JohnP0621]

Great Card . Great Find.. Especially that the Pittsburg on the Jersey is missing.
You don't need a TPG to confirm what is obvious. Just get it into a slab to protect it from any further damage. If down the road you decide to sell it . A Top Auction house can fully describe the card and advanced T206 collectors will bid accordingly.
Would love to see a back scan.

Good Luck.
Regards
John P

[Mac927]

Photo

[Wookjie17]

I have this Dode Paskert which appears to have the brown (? - not entirely sure) ink pass missing but the caption is there. Regular card for comparison

[xplainer]

OK. What ever happened to the OP card?
Did he get it slabbed as "A"?

Curious to know.

[mrvster]

great question!

grading companies wont grade these usually

[Leon]

Originally Posted by xplainer

OK. What ever happened to the OP card?
Did he get it slabbed as "A"?

Curious to know.

No idea but there are some really cool cards in this thread!!