The recent rash of bad grade threads ......

[Rookiemonster]

Has got me thinking .... Do other hobby’s have this isssue with grades? The likes of currency/coins , comics and what ever else gets graded in the collectable world? I mean I don’t think I would have the same eye as I do for cards with coins or comics.

[barrysloate]

Yes. Coin collectors complain all the time about third party grading. Large cent collectors so disagree that they have their own grading system which overrules the grader. For example, a coin graded a 40 by the grading service may be deemed only a 25 by the large cent collector. They generally feel that the number doesn't reflect the actual grade, but represents what a coin is likely to sell for. Coins with visible wear often receive an uncirculated grade which drives collectors crazy. Obviously, all third party grading has a long way to go to get it right.

[A2000]

Buy the coin not the holder!

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Yes. Coin collectors complain all the time about third party grading. Large cent collectors so disagree that they have their own grading system which overrules the grader. For example, a coin graded a 40 by the grading service may be deemed only a 25 by the large cent collector. They generally feel that the number doesn't reflect the actual grade, but represents what a coin is likely to sell for. Coins with visible wear often receive an uncirculated grade which drives collectors crazy. Obviously, all third party grading has a long way to go to get it right.

Thanks for the response. So if I were to try to translate this into the card Hobby.
Psa grades a card a pre war card a four but pre war collectors would say well it’s more like a 2.5? How do they determine this ratio.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Thanks for the response. So if I were to try to translate this into the card Hobby.
Psa grades a card a pre war card a four but pre war collectors would say well it’s more like a 2.5? How do they determine this ratio.

It's more about expectations and the specifics of the issue. I'm not totally up on large cents, but as with most coins there's a standard that most graders follow. And especially at the lower end, there's a lot of interpreting.


If a card is mostly ok, has typical corner wear, and a small crease, is it VG, or only G. I was always taught that a crease equaled G and no better. The grading companies sometimes give a creased card a VG grade.


With many coins, it's things like How many letters of the word Liberty are still showing on the headband, or something like that. It's different depending on the exact design, and probably differs a bit for years where the coins were usually not struck well leading to ones that lacked some detail when they were new.


One of the long time dealers wrote a column on how the standards had been allowed to slide over the years. Possibly to keep collectors and dealers happy with the grades they got. So a Grade of fine today might have been only VG 10 or more years ago.

[steve B]

Grading for stamps is still fairly new, and the companies are very fussy. If the stamp has flaws like a short perforation or a tiny corner crease they may not grade it at all. It's almost purely a measure of how well centered an otherwise perfect copy is.


The stamp places in my opinion are what we'd consider to be slow. I just got my first two back from expertizing after 2-3 months. Both came back as being what I thought they were, which is good. One was the first one authenticated. What was nice was that I had no idea how they'd value it for the purpose of the fee. They simply picked the catalog value of the normal stamp that was used. They caught the fake cancel, which I hadn't. The other one, I sent in thinking it was never hinged, and it came back hinged. About a $400 difference. And all for a tiny flaw in the gum that's hard to see. I'm ok with that, lately with the difference between NH and hinged being pretty large on older stamps they've taken the position that any flaw is considered hinged. Overly cautious, but not a bad way to go. The good news was that the fee became the minimum fee rather than the percentage of the never hinged value they would have charged.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by steve B

One of the long time dealers wrote a column on how the standards had been allowed to slide over the years. Possibly to keep collectors and dealers happy with the grades they got. So a Grade of fine today might have been only VG 10 or more years ago.

Interesting. From what I'm seeing, cards seem to be going the opposite direction. Lots of things are grading about one grade lower than they would have 20 years ago.

[Throttlesteer]

Yes, now people are judging the serial number and generation of the holder to determine how strong a card is. That is, unless they just judge the card on its own. Reholdering throws some off.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by steve B

It's more about expectations and the specifics of the issue. I'm not totally up on large cents, but as with most coins there's a standard that most graders follow. And especially at the lower end, there's a lot of interpreting.


If a card is mostly ok, has typical corner wear, and a small crease, is it VG, or only G. I was always taught that a crease equaled G and no better. The grading companies sometimes give a creased card a VG grade.


With many coins, it's things like How many letters of the word Liberty are still showing on the headband, or something like that. It's different depending on the exact design, and probably differs a bit for years where the coins were usually not struck well leading to ones that lacked some detail when they were new.


One of the long time dealers wrote a column on how the standards had been allowed to slide over the years. Possibly to keep collectors and dealers happy with the grades they got. So a Grade of fine today might have been only VG 10 or more years ago.

I like this thanks . I mention this a while back but I don’t think all cards should be graded under the same standards. There are conditions sensitive sets. Sets made on stock the are very thin. Some sets that the color fades easily. But all that taken into account. Maybe it makes sense to grade them the same and just know what’s see have these issues. But maybe a condition sensitive qualifier makes sense.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

I like this thanks . I mention this a while back but I don’t think all cards should be graded under the same standards. There are conditions sensitive sets. Sets made on stock the are very thin. Some sets that the color fades easily. But all that taken into account. Maybe it makes sense to grade them the same and just know what’s see have these issues. But maybe a condition sensitive qualifier makes sense.

That's sort of handled by pop reports, and to me should be. A quick check will tell you that some stuff just isn't out there in top condition. Grading it on a curve of sorts leaves no room for the outliers like the Black Swamp cards. It would also cause confusion in the expectation of what you get for a certain grade.

On the other hand, at least one company allows a bit of leeway for traits that are just part of the card as issued. Like how tobacco stains on Polar Bear T206s aren't considered to be as bad as a similar stain on other brands.