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View Poll Results: What is your response to the recent PWCC revelations?
1. I wasn't buying from or consigning to PWCC in the first place. 166 34.87%
I will no longer buy from/consign to PWCC. 163 34.24%
I will continue to buy from/consign to PWCC. 78 16.39%
I haven't decided 69 14.50%
Voters: 476. You may not vote on this poll

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  #301  
Old 06-15-2019, 01:52 AM
martyp martyp is offline
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Originally Posted by aloondilana View Post
The grading companies are the ones who put these trimmed/altered cards back on the street worth several times more.

The grading companies are who we trust and pay money to accurately grade our cards.

PSA should be carrying all the blame here. They have consistently placed these cards into their holders, yet all I'm seeing from PSA is dodging questions and diverting to how they have been the catalyst for eliminating fraud in our hobby.

PSA response has been dog shit! I am convinced there is a shady grader who has been given "envelopes" to grade some of these altered cards.
There really cannot be any other exception.

But to constantly barrage PWCC is ridiculous!
Here is an analogy. You are standing outside a 7-11 and hear a gun shot. You then see someone walk out of the store with a gun in one hand and cash in the other. You look inside and see a body on the floor with a hole in their chest. You then look and the person with the gun walks across the street to a gas station. You hear another gun shot. Do you walk away because you did not shoot anyone or do you call the police and tell them what you saw? You have a pretty good idea what happened.
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  #302  
Old 06-15-2019, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
This. Because of my pre-existing level of distrust I had not been buying anything I viewed as significant, but after the latest revelations, confirming I was lied to a couple of years ago, that's it. I'm done and like Kenny I don't really care what it is. I'm not going holier than thou, I'm not judging anyone who has a different perspective, just stating mine.
This sums up my outlook as well. Were it not for Net54 and the knowledge I have gained here, I probably would have bought several cards from PWCC and been subjected to shilling and no telling what else. Thanks to those of you who helped spread the word back a couple of years ago. I listened. Stuff does not trump all for me. I enjoy baseball, baseball cards, and history. However, I decided long ago to be selective regarding what I purchased and from whom I purchased it. And as much as I enjoy all of this, I won't let it be my only, all-consuming hobby because if I did, it would likely lead to bad decisions and lapses of judgment on my part. In situations such as these, a person has to be really honest with himself. Thanks, guys.

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  #303  
Old 06-15-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
You're being ridiculous. You say this...



... but then only include PWCC in your poll. If they're all share in the blame equally, why not include them equally? If they're all equal, why would you do business with one and not the other? I don't get that.

But I do get this. Your poll proves Jesse right. It really is a mob mentality.
+1.

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  #304  
Old 06-15-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dpeck100 View Post
I believe in due process. There have been many people executed in the court of public opinion and not in all cases is wrong doing found. I can think of a very significant recent example.

We will find out if Brent is guilty of all of the crimes that have been alleged. They state in the article an investigation is taking place. If there is as much proof as some allege it will catch up to him. If that happens then I won't need to worry about buying from PWCC.

Brent built a better mouse trap and if he ruined it with greed that will be his own doing.

You have passed judgment on me for years so no concern here.
We will find out if Brent is charged. There's actually irrefutable proof of what he's alleged. You're choosing to stick your head in the sand because it suits your current position.

As far as me passing judgment on you, I think that's a bit melodramatic. I watched for years while you pumped CU with hype about the cards you were "investing" in and only chimed in when you made statements of factual error. The one time I "passed judgment on you" was here, on Net54, when you admitted that you were propping up the Panini Tyson market because you had so much invested in it. You took a lot of people for a ride but that's all good because you learned about it in an economics class.

According to Harvard, 1 in every 25 people is a sociopath.

Arthur
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  #305  
Old 06-15-2019, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martyp View Post
Here is an analogy. You are standing outside a 7-11 and hear a gun shot. You then see someone walk out of the store with a gun in one hand and cash in the other. You look inside and see a body on the floor with a hole in their chest. You then look and the person with the gun walks across the street to a gas station. You hear another gun shot. Do you walk away because you did not shoot anyone or do you call the police and tell them what you saw? You have a pretty good idea what happened.
If it were me, my guess would be that someone went inside the 7-11 to rob the place, the but cashier turned the tables, took out his gun and shot the robber. That was the first gun shot that I heard. Then, the cashier in fear and shock, grabbed the money from the register to safeguard it so he could go across the street to the gas station to call the police. That's when I saw him with cash in one hand and a gun in the other. While at the gas station across the street, he stumbled across another robbery in progress, already had his gun in hand, so shot that robber too. That was the second gun shot that I heard. That's just my guess though. I suppose we could speculate all day long about what really happened.

Anybody here remember the Duke Lacrosse case? Those young men were tried and convicted in the court of public opinion by the media and everyone else before they even went to trial. They were vile, filthy, disgusting, racist animals that raped a young black girl. Anybody remember that outcome of that case? If so, please help me out. Refresh my memory if you will.

Last edited by vintagetoppsguy; 06-15-2019 at 02:22 PM.
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  #306  
Old 06-15-2019, 03:29 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Card doctors have always found outlets for their cards. This has been going on since the advent of TPG. On the vintage side, and apparently to a greater extent than I realized, on the modern side. There doubtless are guys who won't take them. But many, or even most, will.

With all this happening, and people's obvious concern, has anyone other than Al Crisafulli come forward and said not in my auction?
I figure if I come out and make a statement it just looks like a cry for attention as a little guy, but I think everyone on Net54 is pretty clear on where I stand. If not let me state it outright. I will never knowingly have ANY business dealings with a known card doctor.
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  #307  
Old 06-15-2019, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger View Post
According to Harvard, 1 in every 25 people is a sociopath.

Arthur
David Hare and Linda Mealey both put it just above 1%. Your Harvard citation is the first time I've seen it claimed above 2%. Do you recall the name of the psychologist or whoever it was?
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  #308  
Old 06-15-2019, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
If it were me, my guess would be that someone went inside the 7-11 to rob the place, the but cashier turned the tables, took out his gun and shot the robber. That was the first gun shot that I heard. Then, the cashier in fear and shock, grabbed the money from the register to safeguard it so he could go across the street to the gas station to call the police. That's when I saw him with cash in one hand and a gun in the other. While at the gas station across the street, he stumbled across another robbery in progress, already had his gun in hand, so shot that robber too. That was the second gun shot that I heard. That's just my guess though. I suppose we could speculate all day long about what really happened.

Anybody here remember the Duke Lacrosse case? Those young men were tried and convicted in the court of public opinion by the media and everyone else before they even went to trial. They were vile, filthy, disgusting, racist animals that raped a young black girl. Anybody remember that outcome of that case? If so, please help me out. Refresh my memory if you will.
So you are of the mind to just leave and not say anything.
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  #309  
Old 06-15-2019, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
If it were me, my guess would be that someone went inside the 7-11 to rob the place, the but cashier turned the tables, took out his gun and shot the robber. That was the first gun shot that I heard. Then, the cashier in fear and shock, grabbed the money from the register to safeguard it so he could go across the street to the gas station to call the police. That's when I saw him with cash in one hand and a gun in the other. While at the gas station across the street, he stumbled across another robbery in progress, already had his gun in hand, so shot that robber too. That was the second gun shot that I heard. That's just my guess though. I suppose we could speculate all day long about what really happened.
While your scenario could be a possibility of what transpired, I believe you're full of crap that that is what you would seriously guess is what happened. Come on David.
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  #310  
Old 06-15-2019, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe View Post
While your scenario could be a possibility of what transpired, I believe you're full of crap that that is what you would seriously guess is what happened. Come on David.
Of course I'm just joshing, but the point is that sometimes things aren't exactly as they appear...my reference to the Duke Lacrosse rape case.
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  #311  
Old 06-15-2019, 11:45 PM
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I figured as much. Point taken otherwise regarding the lacrosse boys.
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  #312  
Old 06-16-2019, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy View Post
Of course I'm just joshing, but the point is that sometimes things aren't exactly as they appear...my reference to the Duke Lacrosse rape case.
Someone intentionally made up a rape story. We're talking about trading card fraud. Nobody is making anything up. The Blowout guys are doing great work and showing strong evidence. Disgusting reference.
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  #313  
Old 06-16-2019, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger View Post
We will find out if Brent is charged. There's actually irrefutable proof of what he's alleged. You're choosing to stick your head in the sand because it suits your current position.

As far as me passing judgment on you, I think that's a bit melodramatic. I watched for years while you pumped CU with hype about the cards you were "investing" in and only chimed in when you made statements of factual error. The one time I "passed judgment on you" was here, on Net54, when you admitted that you were propping up the Panini Tyson market because you had so much invested in it. You took a lot of people for a ride but that's all good because you learned about it in an economics class.

According to Harvard, 1 in every 25 people is a sociopath.

Arthur
Haha

Took people for a ride? I have never bid more than $500 for a copy on EBAY. I got in on the ground floor and yes there has been a pattern of me making people aware of cards and watching them explode in value. It has been nice.

I still have my PSA 10, 5 PSA 9's an 8 and a UK 8 so I got the pump part right but I somehow screwed up the dump part.

Sociopath. Now that is a first. Sorry my collection is much more important to me than fitting in online with the crowd. If you feel better about yourself because you won't bid in a PWCC auction that is great. Life will go on for both of us.
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  #314  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:06 PM
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A very fine example of how "stuff trumps all".
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  #315  
Old 06-17-2019, 07:55 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Amusingly the Mastro episode of American Greed is coming on in 5 minutes.
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  #316  
Old 06-17-2019, 08:20 PM
Kenny Cole Kenny Cole is offline
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Amusingly the Mastro episode of American Greed is coming on in 5 minutes.
And I'm as pissed off now watching that show as I was the first time I watched it.
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  #317  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:34 AM
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I figured you guys might want to bid on this PWCC card listed through Probstein. The water is safer over there.
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  #318  
Old 06-19-2019, 11:37 AM
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Ha. Speaking of which, has anyone noticed that Rick's emails have a link to PWCC auctions?
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  #319  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:13 PM
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I do not and have never owned this red Cobb old mill (although itís right up my alley). My question is based on the buyer info, how does the guy on blowout know itís prewarcollector? I understand you can clearly see that PWCC is the seller second time around, but how does he know that buyer e***r is prewarcollector?
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  #320  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
I do not and have never owned this red Cobb old mill (although itís right up my alley). My question is based on the buyer info, how does the guy on blowout know itís prewarcollector? I understand you can clearly see that PWCC is the seller second time around, but how does he know that buyer e***r is prewarcollector?
They explained it the first time they identified cards purchased through that account. They figure out the codes by cross-checking feedback received and feedback left.
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  #321  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:20 PM
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PSA Knight: That Cobb is unaltered and is in vg-ex+condition.
King Arthur: What?
PSA Knight: After a further review PSA determines that it is unaltered and in vg-ex+ condition!
King Arthur: I have no quarrel with you, good Sir Knight. But that card has been worked over by a card doctor.
PSA Knight: Then you shall die.
King Arthur: I command you, pursuant to PSA's guarantee, to admit that PSA made a mistake!
PSA Knight: PSA admits fault for no man.
King Arthur: So be it!
[they fight until Arthur cuts off Black Knight's left and right arms]
King Arthur: Victory is mine! PSA is wrong!
[kneels to pray]
King Arthur: We thank thee, Lord, that in thy mercy -
[cut off by the Knight kicking him]
PSA Knight: Come on, then.
King Arthur: What?
PSA Knight: Have at you!
King Arthur: You are indeed brave, Sir Knight, but the fight is mine!
PSA Knight: Oh, had enough, eh?
King Arthur: Look, you stupid bastard. Someone rebuilt the corners and fixed flaws in the card!
PSA Knight: 'Tis but a shadow on the holder!
King Arthur: A shadow? It used to be an SGC 30. The card is altered!
PSA Knight: No, it isn't.
King Arthur: What about these before and after photos?
PSA Knight: [after a pause] I've not made a mistake.
King Arthur: You liar!
PSA Knight: I'm a PSA grader! I'm infallible!
King Arthur: You're a loony.
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  #322  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:53 PM
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Thanks Peter. I missed that!
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  #323  
Old 06-19-2019, 05:44 PM
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Interesting that 30% of the people are saying that they would buy again from PWCC or undecided.....
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  #324  
Old 06-19-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CMIZ5290 View Post
Interesting that 30% of the people are saying that they would buy again from PWCC or undecided.....
In most demographics or polls, it's standard for 30% to be wankers.
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  #325  
Old 06-19-2019, 08:46 PM
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Interesting that 30% of the people are saying that they would buy again from PWCC or undecided.....
It's probably not statistically meaningful but I thought it was an encouraging number. 70 percent of the forum not dealing with the biggest ebay seller. Who would have thunk it two months ago?
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  #326  
Old 06-20-2019, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drcy View Post
In most demographics or polls, it's standard for 30% to be wankers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
It's probably not statistically meaningful but I thought it was an encouraging number. 70 percent of the forum not dealing with the biggest ebay seller. Who would have thunk it two months ago?
70% is too high for Boston attorneys who wear red socks.

30% is too low for the number of New York Wankee fans on the forum.
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  #327  
Old 06-20-2019, 03:45 PM
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Only a complete asshole would continue to do business with these companies after what has gone down. Sorry, but if the shoe fits, wear it.
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  #328  
Old 06-20-2019, 03:57 PM
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Kinda had to be an idiot to do business with them after all the shilling, bid retractions and record prices from day one. Admittedly I sent them stuff, probably sour grapes as I received similar or lower than vcp prices. Bought probably 5 cards ever from them, never said I was a genius.


Stuff trumps all.
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  #329  
Old 06-20-2019, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank A View Post
Only a complete asshole would continue to do business with these companies after what has gone down. Sorry, but if the shoe fits, wear it.
That is not fair Frank. PSA has been a joke from the very first card and PWCC has been a scammer for easily 10 years in my honest opinion. So there is no difference in doing business with either now or 1 year ago or several years ago. It is not like either just changed.
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  #330  
Old 06-20-2019, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank A View Post
Only a complete asshole would continue to do business with these companies after what has gone down. Sorry, but if the shoe fits, wear it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnorth View Post
That is not fair Frank. PSA has been a joke from the very first card and PWCC has been a scammer for easily 10 years in my honest opinion. So there is no difference in doing business with either now or 1 year ago or several years ago. It is not like either just changed.
As a card carrying Frank, although in my case Frank B, I would like to confess that PSA has not received a dime from me. Two low valued cards that were not shilled were purchased from PWCC for below market value though in a moment of weakness. Franks of the world unite.
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Last edited by frankbmd; 06-20-2019 at 10:51 PM.
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  #331  
Old 06-20-2019, 04:29 PM
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As a card carrying Frank, although in my case Frank B, I would like to confess that PSA has received a dime from me. Two low valued cards that were not shilled were purchased from PWCC for below market value though in a moment of weakness. Franks of the world unite.
I have seen your business card with your picture on it, you might be a sketchy dude. I kid Mr B.

I can honestly say I don't think I have ever purchased anything from PWCC. I have paid PSA to slab cards I wanted to sell or get cards into slabs anybody that was not a complete incompetent blind moron would have rejected.
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