Please bear with me, but I have just about had it...

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Posted By: Mike

This afternoon, I got back about 30 items from PSA. Out of the 30 or so, two had the years wrong, and one was mislabeled and had the wrong card encapsulated within. I am more sick than anyone of the grading company bashing threads, but this really pees me off. The two that had the wrong years shown, have Jimmie Foxx wearing a Red Sox cap. But show the years as being from 1930. Unless Mr. Yawkey had a very secretive deal with Mr. Mack, I don't believe Jimmie was with the Red Sox in 1930. The other submission had the wrong card shown on the heading. I know I can resubmit them, and have them corrected, but is it so much to ask that they do their damn job correctly the first go round ? Should I have to examine every item that comes back to make sure it is done properly? Including the aforementioned, I have a couple others that PSA showed as the incorrect years. Or have mislabled names. So I have now have five things that I need to send back and have corrected. Any moron who has the slightest knowledge of Pre War items, would not have made these glaring erors. If there are any head shrinkers out there...thank you for listening....I will look for your invoices for my therapy session, in the mail. My guess is PSA will drive me to leap off a cliff.

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Posted By: James Gallo

Well if your not happy go somewhere else. Just like anything else if more people left PSA because of this then they would try to address it instead of just throwing more grading your way.

If you have crappie work done to your car your not going to bring it back even if they say they will fix it for free.

I have had near 500 cards graded by SGC over the past 5-6 months, I found 1 error a 1914 Cracker Jack that was labeled a 1915. This was part of 100+ card Cracker Jack submission that had both years it in. They fixed it on site at the Philly show for no charge.

Just my experience.

James Gallo

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Posted By: T206Collector

...is the reason many of us have switched to SGC. Now, of course, SGC is run by humans and humans make mistakes, but by and large the service is quite excellent.

I've been collecting images of PSA screw ups and would love to have scans of their mistakes. Feel free to e-mail them to me, if you like, or post them here to further emphasize your cautionary tale.

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Posted By: leon

As most know I only use SGC for my personal stuff and rarely do anything with PSA. Recently I needed to get some cards graded and have the ones that wouldn't grade shipped back to me asap. I called SGC and viola they made it happen. I got the ungradable ones back on Saturday and the rest of them graded, will be back in a few days. I wouldn't even attempt to try that with PSA.....and SGC makes fewer mistakes, even relative to the lower amount they do, than PSA, imo...I did want to point out their service and give a little thanks to the guys at SGC...especially to Scott Hersh ...I try not to get on too many of these grading company threads otherwise....we've heard it all before....regards

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Posted By: JimB

You do not give a lot of details here and I am sure they made mistakes, but I think it is a bit much to presume that they know what years Jimmie Foxx played for what teams. That is not their job. If you labelled the issue and year correctly on your invoice and they still screwed it up, or simply if they got it wrong on a type of card they grade, that is bad. But determining that they are useless because they don't know what team a player played on in 1930 is a bit over the top. What was the card and issue?
JimB

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Posted By: Kyle

Were your grades posted online before you got the package? My last submission had an error and I called PSA immediately after I saw the results posted. They put a hold on shipping and the problem was fixed and shipped 2 days later.

Good luck though, I know PSA makes good on those errors - but I don't have firsthand experience sending anything back to be fixed.

-Kyle-

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well the thing to do is quit having cards slabbed.

And the next thing is to break those bad boys out whenever you buy a slabbed card.

I used to never buy a slabbed card, but eventually found one I desired (almost typed that lie, "needed"), so I won it on eBay. I was disappointed in myself for buying a slabbed card. But then I realized why God gave us hacksaws...

The real reason cards get slabbed is because they sell better, because uneducated buyers don't have faith in truly knowing what they're buying, they need validation from someone else. If collectors would learn their stuff and buy unslabbed cards just as willingly as the slabbed, then the grading companies would go away.

Slabbing reminds me of Dutch tulip futures of years past.

I know I'm in the minority on this. Just because a majority feels a certain way, it does not mean they are correct, they are merely in the majority. Sometimes the majority is wrong.

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Posted By: Mike

I know leon, as I stated, I am tired of grading Threads as well. Thanks for allowing this one. I promise I won't do it again. But it helped to get it off my chest. In response to several comments, I use all three major graders, as well. Global and SGC. And true, I have not had as many problems with the last two mentioned. But..in this case I went to PSA. In response to a comment concerning an individual knowing whether or not Foxx was with the A's or the Red Sox. Doesn't any pre war collector know this? Or baseball expert? If a Ruth item showed him wearing a Boston Red Sox cap, and was dated 1927, wouldn't that raise a red flag? This is no different. Two of the items are from 36. They show them as 30. I wasn't looking for sympathy. I was just angry. If my scannerwould work correctly, I would show what i am talking about. maybe I will try and repair it. Anyway...thanks for listening. I won't use PSA any longer.

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Posted By: Al Crisafulli

"The real reason cards get slabbed is because they sell better, because uneducated buyers don't have faith in truly knowing what they're buying, they need validation from someone else. If collectors would learn their stuff and buy unslabbed cards just as willingly as the slabbed, then the grading companies would go away."

I realize you're stating your opinion, but without noting that, this seems like an awfully presumptuous statement to make.

I slab many of my cards because I like the way they look, because I like the way they display, because I like the protection the slab offers, and because I like an expert opinion on grade.

Oddly enough, I also buy unslabbed cards - and then I have them slabbed. MOST of what I buy is unslabbed. I am by no means as knowledgeable about cards as most of the people on this board, but I'm not uneducated, either.

Unfortunately, I think the idea that uneducated collectors being the reason why grading companies exist is an off-base statement to make. I think the reason grading companies exist has more to do with unscrupulous SELLERS and their 1980s grading methods (i.e. if it has four corners, it must be "mint").

I'll say it, even thought it makes me a heretic here - I like prewar cards, and I prefer them in slabs.


To get back to the original point of the thread, my impression is that the mislabeling is not the fault of the grader, but the fault of the data entry that happens when your submission is recorded. It's unfortunate, yes. Particularly if you had the information accurate on your submission form.

-Al

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Posted By: warshawlaw

So there is no excuse for that many errors.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Both PSA Magies on REA are likewise mis-labeled.

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Posted By: jackgoodman

I've chimed in with this same comment before, because frankly, it continues to apply: Wouldn't simply having someone check the flip with the invoice and make sure they match (and if they don't - take whatever action is appropriate) before putting them into a shipping box aleviate most of these types of problems? It's called "quality control." And this can apply to any of the grading companies.

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Posted By: Noel

By the sound of this, it would lead one to believe that anyone who buys a graded card is genuinely a bad person. Reminds me of a lot of the dealers i used to deal with in the 80's and 90's. Bitter because they could no longer get away with nm/mt prices for ex/mt cards. Graded cards put buyers and sellers on a level playing field. For me it is the only way to do business over the internet. I would have no problem paying someone to thoroughly inspect a vintage car or high priced item before i purchased it. Same principle applies.

In regards to the number of mistakes by PSA, they have been accomodating with me in any mistakes. I know it is a pain because i too love to look at the labels and it would drive me nuts as well having it mislabeled. Just weigh your options with the therapy sessions and peace of mind and make sure it is all worth it!

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Posted By: Mike

Yes, my submission slips were correct. My submissions were not mailed, to them, one of my friends is one of the top dealers in the country, and he took them with him to one of the last major shows. Sorry, don't recall which one. I buy many "raw" cards, because when I buy them, I already know what grade they are, or should be. I just bought one from leon and another from Jim Manos. I slab them because they are easier to store, transport, and show to people. I do public presentations, Rotary, schools, churches, etc, etc. of pre War items. I can pass them around the room. Or lay them down on a table, and people pick them up and look at them. I can always pull out the hacksaw and free them, if need be. But getting back to the issue at hand, regardless of what anyone thinks, 10% is way too high a percentage to be labled incorrectly. At least in my world it is. PSA's last effort is unexcusable. I will not use them again.

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Posted By: Steve

I agree, PSA needs to do something regarding all these mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes but PSA is getting out of hand regarding mis;abeling the past year or so.

I won't say how often but from the amount of threads I see it is alot. I have 1 myself.

Steve

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I truly think that a Professional grader should know what they're grading, even if the guy submitting it had it wrong. But it seems that the grading is done by folks who could do with further education (oh, I so wanted to type that they were uneducated).

Again, the way to aviod this mess is to quit grading cards.

No one is evil if they buy a slabbed card. Buy it and help that little fellow escape, he's committed no crime.

And if someone REALLY likes the way the cards look and display in big fancy, cumbersome holders, then go get some holders like that and slab them yourself. Then all of your cards would look pretty in the big holders, much more affordably. And no doubt, you'd correctly label the cards.

I find the big holders bulky and cumbersome. Seems like what would happen if I got a divorce and married Julia Roberts, she lives in LA and I'm in Kentucky, we'd never see each other, a barrier between us, couldn't touch... I prefer being able to hold history, instead of holding something that encapsulates history.

If I'm out in left field on this, at least I avoid the heartache described above when the slabber-guys screw up.

Frank.

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Posted By: T206Collector

If you can trust a grading company, like SGC, then you never have to rely on the misstatements of ebay sellers in regards to condition. How could you possibly spend more than a few bucks on a piece of cardboard from 1910 over the internet without knowing from a third party what the grade is? Grading will only rise in use and popularity as long as the internet is in existence. Not only isn't it a necessary evil -- it's a necessary good in 21st Century collecting.

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Posted By: cmoking

Frank: "Seems like what would happen if I got a divorce and married Julia Roberts, she lives in LA and I'm in Kentucky, we'd never see each other, a barrier between us, couldn't touch"

Man, what exactly are you doing to your cards?

edited: actually, please don't tell, I'm afraid to know.

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Posted By: barry arnold

i'm with you cmoking.
might be a good time to bring lloyd bentsen into this
debate.

best,

barry

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Posted By: Rick

The good thing is that you can take your money and spend it elsewhere.

SGC and GAI are also quality graders.

I prefer PSA graded cards ...I think they do a great job overall.

However i am thankful that there is competition.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I like to be able to pick up a card, to touch it, to see it laying in the palm of my hand, and think of the history of the card, the hobby, the sport.

I like T206s with pinholes at the top, don't you know they were pinned to a wall, above some kid's bed, about 95 years ago.

This is the 21st century and we CAM'T trust the card slabbers. If we could, this thread would never have started. Time and again I see a slabbed card with something wrong about the identification. So do you guys, you eagle-eye them out and post them here. Might as well just collect the little PSA labels. And I have some I'll sell you, remnants of my hacksawing.

And aside from the pleasure I get in sawing a guy out of plastic, is the idea that it screws up population reports and the like. But those are already a mess, because some folks, discontent with paying someone to tell them about their card, they decide to send it back again, and again...

And the way to avoid the angst of worrying about cards en route between PSA and home, and fretting about misidentification, is to quit doing it. I have not set out to go skydiving in years. And I'm not worried about having a skydiving accident tomorrow.

Do you reckon that paying for slabbing and reslabbing is deductable from the capital gains taxes incurred when you sell a slabbed card? Could the IRS get the records from PSA of cards a guy sent in... then when he dies, either those cards should be in his estate, or he must have sold them, oops, he overlooked paying the taxes on that transaction, whenever it occurred.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I'm a big Double X fan, but I couldn't tell you what years he played for what teams.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: steve yawitz

PSA's shoddy quality control is a big problem and is one of the reasons I'm jumping ship after submitting to them and supporting them for the last 5 or 6 years. Sure clerical errors exist in every field, but we're paying PSA for their alleged expertise at identifying, authenticating and grading our cards.

So many of the faulty labels could be prevented with either a rudimentary knowledge of the hobby (or hobby websites), or by simply looking at the card and its reverse for a few seconds. That there are so many boneheaded mistakes on the labels really calls into question the integrity and efficacy of the whole ball of PSA plastic.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Most are completely graded by PSA AND SGC, and both companies committed horrors beyond your imaginings...over and undergrading--I do believe they got all the names right, except for the Black Sox World Series Ticket,, which they called game 3, but that's what it says on the ticket (each park printed tickets for only their own park, so both Cincinatti and the White Sox had a "gane 3" ticket (the White Sox' I own actually being game 5)..but that's pretty deep for PSA.

Lifson spends most of his writing time apologizing for PSA and SGC. One card (a Natio0nal Game Joe Jackson, which graded a 60) he says: "this card has been downgraded becuase...just a second...give us a minute..well, actually, we can't see anything wrong with this card. If it were in a near-mint holder, we wouldn't give it a second thought." he also warns you if cards are overgraded...

Bye, cards...

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Amen, Julie.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I'm curious....what does Lloyd Bentsen have to do with all this ?

Frank W.

Ditto, to what you said, I love to "Touch....Caress....Smell" the cards
in my collection. When I acquire Graded cards I grab my trusty hammer
and sharp-tipped screwdriver and "release" the card so it can "breathe".

Graded cards that I intend to sell I leave encapsulated...."can't fight
city hall".

T-Rex Ted

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Posted By: barry arnold

hi trex!

after cmoking's comment,just had to tease Frank W. a wee bit.

when frank talked about divorce and marrying Julia Roberts, i was remembering
when Lloyd Bentsen cracked in the debate with Quayle "you're no John Kennedy."
in other words, 'Frank, you're no husband of Julia Roberts.'

and alas, neither am i.

sorry frank.

best

barry

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Dan Quayle was quick witted he would have responded to Bentsen's remark....

But, Lloyd...."the Marilyn I go to bed with is my Wife" ! !

Barry....had Quayle been daring enough to respond with this, do you think it
might have changed his image ?

We'll never know....but I wish he had, as it would have been "the sound byte"
to beat all sound bytes. And, I would've given away a T206 HOFer to see that
"pompous ass" Bentsen's expression.

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Posted By: barry arnold

clever retort, trex.
but as you say, we'll never know.
at least, you didn't have to part with a t206!

best,

barry