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  #1  
Old 01-11-2018, 07:09 PM
chlankf chlankf is offline
Craig L.
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Default 1874 Baseball Pictures

I have an opportunity to purchase 2 1874 player photographs. This is a bit earlier than I feel comfortable pulling the trigger on without the opinions of the extensive knowledge base on the board. I have been doing quite a bit of searching for info regarding images of this era, the equipment used, etc. Great article from cycleback found that has helped.

www.cycleback/photoguide/uni.htm

Questions are:
- Do these appear to actually be from 1874?
- What is a fair price for both the seller and myself?

Thanks in advance
Craig
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File Type: jpg IMG_0026.jpg (69.3 KB, 305 views)

Last edited by chlankf; 01-11-2018 at 07:11 PM. Reason: fix error in link
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2018, 07:20 PM
Jason19th Jason19th is offline
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To me they look like later photographed of the originals -real type 1 images from this time are actually incredibly crisp

Compare to this 1889 image- even with poor contrast the image is more crisp
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File Type: jpg IMG_2259.jpg (79.5 KB, 293 views)

Last edited by Jason19th; 01-11-2018 at 07:28 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2018, 07:51 PM
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Dan Bretta
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They do have a Xerox like quality to them. I'd be careful with that purchase.
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  #4  
Old 01-11-2018, 07:58 PM
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David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
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Agree that the photos look questionable, but the 1870s dating of the images looks right. The rectangular images should be pasted on top of the cardboard backing, not be a direct part of it.

I'm just looking at small pics, so don't know.

Last edited by drcy; 01-11-2018 at 08:05 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:03 PM
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j'a'y mi.ll.e.r
 
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If you have the photos in hand you can loop them and know if they are period. I agree with David that they look questionable, but unless you see them in person it is tough to know for sure.
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:07 PM
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Id pass. The even rounding corners on both cabinets is not good. Then the white showing on the bottom left side on the card(left side) would scare me away. My guess is there is another exact cabinet with same image out there that is larger in size and you are looking at a smaller version which is more modern. What size are the cards you are looking at?
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:14 PM
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They eerily resemble these two images that were recently posted to ebay out of the UK...marked in exactly the same manner...they make me squeamish.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-19th-c...kAAOSwlpZaU1~m

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-19th-c...0AAOSwmSdaU1hg

I'm not an image expert, but I'd steer clear.

Jon
www.dugouttreasures.com
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:16 PM
chlankf chlankf is offline
Craig L.
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Not sure of exact size yet. Am heading out of town and will be stopping by to see than in person. I have a few 1888 team cabinets and N173s but that is as old as my collection goes.

What things could I look for other than what is mentioned above? What would I be looking for with a loop, I'll take mine with me?
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:27 PM
chlankf chlankf is offline
Craig L.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpop43 View Post
They eerily resemble these two images that were recently posted to ebay out of the UK...marked in exactly the same manner...they make me squeamish.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-19th-c...kAAOSwlpZaU1~m

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-19th-c...0AAOSwmSdaU1hg

I'm not an image expert, but I'd steer clear.

Jon
www.dugouttreasures.com
Great call out Jonathan. Not eerily similar, terrifyingly similar. Writing same, hat by left foot on right placed in same position and appears to be same uniform.

So glad I posted my question here. I will still stop and check them out. Please keep the comments coming on what all I should look for.

Appreciated
Craig
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:34 PM
Jason19th Jason19th is offline
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Compare your 1888 cabinets - there should be little difference between an 1888 and 1874 cabinet - no real change in tech during that period
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2018, 08:56 PM
dbrown dbrown is offline
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These aren't real — the originals are in the New York Public Library, which has published a lot of high-res images from their collection. Looks like someone traced the original 19th c. handwriting to make it readable, on top of a digital print. (Originals from the collection of A.G. Spalding, no less.)

https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/...0-e00a18064a99

https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/...0-e00a18064a99

(Tineye.com reverse image search is a great tool)

David

Last edited by dbrown; 01-11-2018 at 09:00 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2018, 09:01 PM
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David Ru.dd Cycl.eback
 
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Agree, your 1880s cabinets are good for comparison, though the mounts on 1870s cabinets may be thinner. They were made with the same albumen photographic process.

If it's a reprint, the images are more than likely digital prints and will have a multi-color dot pattern under strong magnification. Real photo images were made by chemical reaction under light and so have no printed pattern. A dot pattern is a givewaway that they're fake.

As mentioned, the photographic prints were on very thin paper pasted to the mounts-- and not printed directly onto them. Same as with the cabinets you have (use them as reference) The real photographic prints would have a different gloss than the mount, and the 1800s images often have a gloss to them.

Use a blacklight if you have one. Will identify many modern reprints right away, as blacklight identifies much modern paper and cardstock.

Last edited by drcy; 01-11-2018 at 09:02 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:00 AM
chlankf chlankf is offline
Craig L.
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Thanks David & Drcy

I have asked for high resolution front and back scans. I now seriously doubt the are original prints now. Still, I am hopeful the scans reveal the same backing was used showing the studio. I also want to compare the writings on each verses the Spalding collection images.

Could it be possible that the studio made multiple copies?

The seller has other items I was interested in. Here are those images. Any thoughts on these?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg baseball_bats.jpg (31.9 KB, 183 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0024 - Copy 1.jpg (50.6 KB, 183 views)

Last edited by chlankf; 01-12-2018 at 06:08 AM. Reason: added additional images
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:10 AM
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These aren't real — the originals are in the New York Public Library

That's why this is the most knowledgeable sports memorabilia board in the world!
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:14 AM
bgar3 bgar3 is offline
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Yes, there are multiple copies of this issue of cabinets that are known and possible. I believe done prior to the world tour of 1874.
It is highly unlikely these are among them. Reread post 11. Putting aside the handwriting issue, note the differences, especially color, clarity and most Importantly it is obvious the Spalding collection copies are real photos, not printed as has been mentioned by prior posters, one of whom actually wrote the article you cited in your first post.
Be very careful.
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2018, 01:57 PM
chlankf chlankf is offline
Craig L.
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Default Update

I just received high quality front and back scans and have spoken to to auction house selling them. The two I posted about are indeed artificially aged copies. They are blank backed with poor streaky images. I have relayed the information to the AH and they ate going to pull them from the auction or change the listing to copies.

I want thank everyone who chimed in and possibly saved me from making a large financial mistake. There is no doubt that this forum has the greatest knowledge base in the collecting community.

Sincerely
Craig
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  #17  
Old 01-16-2018, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpop43 View Post
They eerily resemble these two images that were recently posted to ebay out of the UK...marked in exactly the same manner...they make me squeamish.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-19th-c...kAAOSwlpZaU1~m

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-19th-c...0AAOSwmSdaU1hg

I'm not an image expert, but I'd steer clear.

Jon
www.dugouttreasures.com
I have been seeing these copies for years it seems. Most of the times fakes and reprints won't be near as focused as the real thing. They look grainy.
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