AMAZING Wagner photo...

[GKreindler]

Hey all,

I stumbled upon this gem somewhere on the Internet. What I want to know is, where did it come from? I've never seen this image before, and would LOVE to make a painting of it someday. In my opinion, it has the potential to be the mirror of Conlon's famous Cobb slide...

Can anyone shed some light?

Graig

[ChiefBenderForever]

Awesome photo, super cool image !! I just looked at your website and have to say WOW !! Very nice paintings, you really capture the essence of the pictures. With everyone having a video camera on their phone it's easy to forget how a picture is a blink in time, like the Wagner you just stumbled accross. Can't wait to see the painting!

[GKreindler]

Thanks for your compliments Johnny!! Going even further with what you said regarding camera phones and all, it's amazing to think how much history HASN'T been recorded because of technology of the time, as well as the billion dollar business machine MLB has become 100 years after the fact...

Man, I still can't believe that people like Conlon would just stand on the field to capture this stuff. And think of how many photos he must have taken in a single game, and how many were destroyed. I keep praying that one day, I'm going to stumble onto an attic that has 1000s of lost Conlons, Bains, Thompsons and the like. I think I'd scan them all for a library to paint from, and then turn them loose to you guys!!

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

That's a great image--I'd never seen it before. There's more kicked-up dirt in this one. And, unlike poor Jimmie Austin, the fielder is practically *welcoming* Honus' spkies!

[drc]

With the Cobb photo, Conlon was knocked down and didn't learn he snapped an image of the slide until he developed the film.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by drc

With the Cobb photo, Conlon was knocked down and didn't learn he snapped an image of the slide until he developed the film.

David. I had never heard or read that Conlon had been knocked down while taking that picture.

From page 26 of Baseball's Golden Age - The Photographs of Charles M. Conlon - By Neal & Constance McCabe

Charles M. Conlon: "The strange thing about that picture was that I did not know I had snapped it. I was off third, chatting with Jimmy Austin, third baseman for the New York club. Cobb was on second, with one out, and the hitter was trying to bunt him to third. Austin moved in for the sacrifice. As Jimmy stood there, Cobb started. The fans shouted. Jimmy turned, backed into the base, and was greeted by a storm of dirt, spikes, shoes, uniforms - and Ty Cobb. My first thought was that my friend, Austin, had been injured. When Cobb stole, he stole. Spikes flew and he did not worry where. I saw Ty's clenched teeth, his determined look. The catcher's peg went right by Jimmy, as he was thrown on his face."

But in a moment I realized he wasn't hurt, and I was relieved because Jimmy and I were very close friends. Then I began to wonder if by any chance I had snapped the play. I couldn't remember that I had, but I decided to play [it] safe and change plates anyway. I went home kicking myself. I said, 'Now there was a great picture and you missed it.' I took out my plates and developed them. There was Cobb stealing third. In my excitement, I had snapped it, by instinct."

[drc]

I was speaking metaphysically.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

It just struck me that I don't ever recall seeing the famous image in question signed by Austin. There are examples (in varying sizes) signed by Cobb.

[drc]

I heard Cobb owned reprints of the photo for the purpose of autographs.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I have never heard that, but if that's indeed the case, Cobb likely only gave this image out on very special occasions. Not a whole lot have survived. I have seen two or three other familiar 8X10 images that were given to friends by Cobb. Unlike some players, Cobb didn't seem to send back extra items when replying to mail requests.

[GKreindler]

It would be amazing if an Austin/Cobb signed copy existed. I feel like every time I've ever seen an action shot autographed from that era (or even the 20s), there would more often than not have just the main protagonist penning his name (that is, if it were done during that period). And, considering that this is the most famous photo in baseball history, having it signed by both would surely make a kingly gift...

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Although he was always a willing signer, not many fans seemed to write to Austin for an autograph following his retirement. This is evidenced by the lack of examples when compared to the surviving items signed by non-HOF players of his era who passed away around the same time (mid-1960's). Interestingly, most of those other men had careers that paled when placed side-by-side to Austin's accomplishments. Most surviving Austin autographs can be found on cuts or multi-signed album pages, with a few 3X5s and GPCs in the mix.

Also, I would say that Austin's signature ties with those of Chief Meyers and Canadian George Gibson as being the most difficult of the men featured in TGOTT. While not incredibly rare, they can at times pose a bit of a challenge to procure (especially if one is picky about quality).

[Bob Lemke]

who's the first baseman?

[Rich Klein]

Also, I would say that Austin's signature ties with those of Chief Meyers and Canadian George Gibson as being the most difficult of the men featured in TGOTT. While not incredibly rare, they can at times pose a bit of a challenge to procure (especially if one is picky about quality).[/QUOTE]

1) I believe Austin passed on before the publishing of GOTT. If so; then the people who discovered his life story would not have been able to contact him

2) George Gibson passed early in 67; again I suspect he was not able to reap any benefits of GOTT

3) The Chief certainly stayed active for at least a few years after the publishing of GOTT; wonder why less signed items on him.

Regards
Rich

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Actually, my statement would still hold relevance even if the book had never been published. For instance, there are far more Hugh Bedients out there (1910's BoSox, died the same year as Austin). That baffles me. I could compose a list of similar instances which would do nothing except leave us to scratch our heads in puzzlement as to why somebody like Austin was virtually ignored by collectors.

Many decades ago, The Sporting News used to run a "Where are they Now?" column featuring the current status of the players of yesterday. In those friendlier, simpler times, TSN apparently did not think it unwise to be listing the players' home addresses at the bottom of each column! Consequently, these men were sent many autograph requests. I beleive Austin was featured in one of these columns, so it makes me wonder why more 3X5s and GPCs aren't out there. There is a core group of about 25-50 non-HOFers who all passed away in the 1950's-60's whose autographs turn up with much more frequency than the majority of their contemporaries. It's those TSN articles that we have to thank for the extra autographs of guys like Jack Warhop, Ed Abbaticcio, Howie Camnitz, Sox Seibold, Vean Gregg, etc.

I think there are fewer Gibsons because he lived up here in Ontario. Therefore, he was out of reach to many (although he would courteously reply to autograph seekers). To add to your thoughts, keep in mind that Gibson's chapter in TGOTT actually didn't make the first cut; his section was added in much later printings (I think the revamped edition published in 1984 was his first appearance).

Strangely, Sad Sam Jones died only a year after the book's publication, yet collectors wrote *him* throughout his life. For somebody who died 43 years ago, his is a very common autograph. Both Jones and Austin had very respectable, storied careers. Why, then, was one flooded with fan mail and the other all but forgotten?

[terjung]

Graig:

I just went to your website for the first time. Outstanding paintings! You are quite gifted!

Brian

[milkit1]

wow! awesome paintings! stick with prewar! And do a Hal Chase!

[GKreindler]

There will certainly be a lot more pre-war stuff, and certainly at some point, a Hal Chase to boot!

I'm hoping to post a few more paintings on here before the National comes around, one of which is Conlon's Cobb...

[GKreindler]

Hey all,

I know it's still a shot in the dark, but I thought I'd try again. Has anyone (new members included) ever ran into this Wagner photo?



I'm still on the lookout (and probably will be for a long time)!

Thanks,

Graig

[jbsports33]

any info on the back, first time I have seen the photo - seems like an odd size as well

Jimmy

[GKreindler]

Jimmy,

Unfortunately, I have no back information. The photo was found somewhere online last year, and I've been trying to track down someone who has it ever since.

What I'm pretty sure about is that the image is from 1909, most likely against Brooklyn at Washington Park.

I wish I knew more!

Graig

[Matt]

closest I could find:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...+s005887%29%29

[Bob Lemke]

When I used the image for my T202-style card, I identified the play as taking place at third, and the fielder as Brooklyn's Ed Lennox.

T202 Wagner front.jpg

T202 Wagner back.jpg

[GKreindler]

Very, VERY cool card, Bob. I especially love how you flipped Carey - good creative problem solving with having him face the center panel. Truly a man after my own heart.

And, I'm starting to wonder, is it possible that the Wagner is a Conlon? I mean, the only reason I have for even suggesting it is because of the fact that we know he liked to sit by third base, and from what we can tell of his work, it almost always was shot in New York (or Boston in the 1912 World Series).

I don't know, I doubt that it is, but it's amazing to me how much this one mirrors the famous Cobb photo, even if they were a year apart...

[GKreindler]

Hey all,

I know it's been a long while, but I thought I'd revive this thread in the hopes that someone might have seen this Wagner photo somewhere. Every time I see it in my files, I get REALLY sad that I don't have a high quality version of it...



Of course, any help is appreciated!

Graig

[GKreindler]

And I'd still punch myself in the face for a good scan of this one!!

Graig

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by GKreindler

Hey all,

I stumbled upon this gem somewhere on the Internet. What I want to know is, where did it come from? I've never seen this image before, and would LOVE to make a painting of it someday. In my opinion, it has the potential to be the mirror of Conlon's famous Cobb slide...

Can anyone shed some light?

Graig

That's an awesome photo - thanks for sharing.

My thought is that you should go ahead and paint it. The image is large enough and it's public domain.

[milkit1]

I think bob is right on.

[GKreindler]

Can I just say that I'm absolutely THRILLED that this finally saw the light of day?

Doug Allen and the boys at Legendary were kind enough to provide me with a really great scan of it, something that I can't even properly express how grateful I am for.

It's gonna make one hell of a painting. And whoever won it, you got yourself a friggin' deal as far as I'm concerned.

Graig

[Runscott]

Graig, this was one of the photos that I waited until 2 minutes before it ended to put in another bid...and it was closed. I don't get it, but that's life.

[GKreindler]

Ugggh, I'm sorry to hear it, Scott. I hope the other ones that you picked up made up for the four that got screwy...

Graig

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by GKreindler

Ugggh, I'm sorry to hear it, Scott. I hope the other ones that you picked up made up for the four that got screwy...

Graig

Thanks, Graig - they definitely made up for it. I was also prepared to go at least a couple of bids higher on the Conlon-notated 'Cobb Sliding' photo. It was kind of stunning that it ended where it did. To me that piece was even more important than the Van Oeyen one that recently went for a much higher price. The deals were great tonight.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by GKreindler

Can I just say that I'm absolutely THRILLED that this finally saw the light of day?

Doug Allen and the boys at Legendary were kind enough to provide me with a really great scan of it, something that I can't even properly express how grateful I am for.

It's gonna make one hell of a painting. And whoever won it, you got yourself a friggin' deal as far as I'm concerned.

Graig

Whaddayamean finally? You only had to wait, what, 4-1/2 years? Sheesh, kids these days, always in a hurry

Can't wait to see that one in full living color! Hopefully we won't have to wait another 4-1/2 years...?