NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-17-2014, 01:53 PM
The Nasty Nati The Nasty Nati is offline
B. Schneid.
Ben Sch.neider
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 668
Default The True RC's of the T206 set.

I'm curious what are the true rookie cards found in the T206 set?

I know Zach Wheat is one, but are there others? Some claim that Tris Speaker is, but is that his true rookie card?

Old Cardboard has a nice list of HOF rookies (http://www.oldcardboard.com/ref/rookies/RookiesList.asp) but I was wondering if anyone knows if there are other rookie cards in the set, like the minor stars.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-17-2014, 02:09 PM
bn2cardz's Avatar
bn2cardz bn2cardz is offline
₳₦ĐɎ ₦ɆɄ฿ɆⱤ₮
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Default

I don't know about every one, but of the two you mentioned I know some consider the Novelty Cutlery as Speaker's Rookie (if you count PostCards):
http://apr13.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=55712

For speaker there is also a E90-1. Since Speaker is a group 2 for t206 that makes his t206 a 1910. That would means that it is possible the e90-1 predates it his t206 by a year.

Zack wheat wasn't found in any other set that predates or at the same time as his t206
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-17-2014, 02:29 PM
Bicem's Avatar
Bicem Bicem is offline
Jeff 'Prize-ner'
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,051
Default

Novelty Cutlery is 1910.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-17-2014, 02:54 PM
h2oya311's Avatar
h2oya311 h2oya311 is offline
Derek Granger
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,383
Default HOF Rookies in T206 set

> Speaker - I have struggled with classifying his rookie card to date. Most have generally accepted that his t206 is his rookie card. But there are a few postcards that pre-date it: the 1908 Little Rock Travelers Team PC and the 1908-09 Rose Company Poscard (if it exists). Until recently, most would have considered the Novelty Cutlery PC to have pre-dated the t206 since it was categorized as having been issued from 1907-09. To date, no Novelty Cutlery PC's have had a cancellation date prior to 1910, which is why Jeff (bicem) believes them to be a 1910 issue.

> Wheat - here's an interesting one. There are several cabinet photos that pre-date his 1910 T206. There's a 1900's Kelso Studio Cabinet Card, a 1906 Prairie Roses Team Cabinet, and a 1906 Cabinet (showing him in a Union City uniform). For some reason, I have always though of the 1909-12 PX7 Sweet Caporal Domino Discs as his rookie card, but don't ask me why.

> Marquard - The T206 of Marquard (w/ 150 back / hands at side) is often thought to be his rookie card by collectors, although I would prefer the few minor league cards that pre-date his T206, namely the 1907 Canton Ohio Team PC and/or the 1908 Indianapolis PC (where he is incorrectly named "Charles Marquard"). Additionally, there is a 1908 Hall's Studio Cabinet of Marquard, although I'm not sure I've ever seen one before, I've only seen it checklisted. Obviously, there are a few concurrent cards from 1909, but not many, so I think it's okay to call the Marquard (hands at side / 150 series) a "rookie" card as well.

I don't think any other HOF player in the T206 set should be considered a rookie card other than the three listed above. Coming to a consensus on "true rookie" is a herculean effort that won't be resolved in this thread (or ever).

I'm not sure about any of the non-HOF players in the set, unfortunately.
__________________
...
http://imageevent.com/derekgranger

HOF "Earliest" Collection (Ideal - Indiv): 244/342 (71.4%)
1914 T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps......: 114/119 (95.8%)
1923 V100 Willard's Chocolate............: 177/180 (98.3%)

Last edited by h2oya311; 10-17-2014 at 02:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-17-2014, 03:10 PM
GregMitch34's Avatar
GregMitch34 GregMitch34 is offline
Greg Mitchell
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: New York City area
Posts: 2,417
Default

I wonder why the Marquard hands-at-side gets no price bump at all in sales, in fact it's usually one of the very average or below average types for a HOFer for t206.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-17-2014, 03:11 PM
Baseball Rarities's Avatar
Baseball Rarities Baseball Rarities is offline
K3v1n Stru55
member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by h2oya311 View Post
> Until recently, most would have considered the Novelty Cutlery PC to have pre-dated the t206 since it was categorized as having been issued from 1907-09. To date, no Novelty Cutlery PC's have had a cancellation date prior to 1910, which is why Jeff (bicem) believes them to be a 1910 issue.
Both the PC805 Novelty Cutlery and PC796 Sepia postcards definitely come from 1910. I made a pretty detailed post about this in the past, but it basically comes down to the fact that many of the players in the set are pictured in uniforms that were not used until 1909. The earliest postmark that I have found for either of these sets is October 14, 1910, which makes sense as many of the postcard sets of that era were initially produced around the time of the World Series.

Lastly, Beckett always classified these sets as being from 1910. For some reason, when The Sports Collectors Bible added the PC805 Novelty Cutlery set to their book, they dated it as being from 1907, which makes no sense since they already included the PC796 Sepia set and dated that one at 1910. This error has been copied by other price guides ever since.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-17-2014, 03:34 PM
h2oya311's Avatar
h2oya311 h2oya311 is offline
Derek Granger
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,383
Default

Kevin - thanks (as always) for the detailed explanation re: PC805
__________________
...
http://imageevent.com/derekgranger

HOF "Earliest" Collection (Ideal - Indiv): 244/342 (71.4%)
1914 T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps......: 114/119 (95.8%)
1923 V100 Willard's Chocolate............: 177/180 (98.3%)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-17-2014, 04:44 PM
wolf441's Avatar
wolf441 wolf441 is offline
Steve Woe.lfel
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Walpole, MA
Posts: 2,120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregMitch34 View Post
I wonder why the Marquard hands-at-side gets no price bump at all in sales, in fact it's usually one of the very average or below average types for a HOFer for t206.
I think it's because his numbers don't really stack up as a true HOFer. 201-177 for mostly top tier teams and with a 3.08 ERA in the dead ball era. It seems to be the same it terms of sales with guys like Flick and Bresnahan, at least when compared to the prices for normal HOF guys like Wheat, Eddie Collins, etc...
__________________
___________________
T206 Master Set:103/524
T206 HOFers: 22/76
T206 SLers: 11/48
T206 Back Run: 28/39

Desiderata

You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Strive to be happy.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-17-2014, 04:44 PM
freakhappy's Avatar
freakhappy freakhappy is offline
Mike C@.v3
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: OHIO
Posts: 2,102
Default The True RC's of the T206 set.

I'm sure this has been covered many times over, but what qualifies as a "rookie card"? Any ol picture under the sun, a postcard (is this really considered a baseball card?), or an actual trading card like t206s or t205s, etc.,?

Just trying to understand what is accepted amongst the community.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
T206's Graded low-mid 219/520
T201's SGC/PSA 2-5 50/50
T202's SGC/PSA 2-5 10/132
1938 Goudey Graded VG range 37/48

Last edited by freakhappy; 10-17-2014 at 04:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-18-2014, 06:38 AM
edhans's Avatar
edhans edhans is offline
Ed Hans
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Buffalo, N.Y.
Posts: 1,222
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bn2cardz View Post
]

For speaker there is also a E90-1. Since Speaker is a group 2 for t206 that makes his t206 a 1910. That would means that it is possible the e90-1 predates it his t206 by a year.
Speaker's E90-1 is almost certainly a late 1910 or 1911 issue.
__________________
Please visit my website at http://t206.monkberry.com/index.html

Last edited by edhans; 10-18-2014 at 06:39 AM. Reason: Typo. I really gotta start previewing my posts.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-18-2014, 09:09 AM
bn2cardz's Avatar
bn2cardz bn2cardz is offline
₳₦ĐɎ ₦ɆɄ฿ɆⱤ₮
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by edhans View Post
Speaker's E90-1 is almost certainly a late 1910 or 1911 issue.
Not saying you are wrong, but what makes you date it later? I really don't know of any research done on dating the subjects in this set (I am sure it has been done, but I am ignorant on the subject). That is why I only said it was possible.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
O/T: a true one-of-kind T206 Wagner brass_rat Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 10 08-26-2012 07:18 PM
Calling All True Pre-War Buffs: Rank The T206 HOFers bundy462 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 13 04-01-2012 06:32 AM
T206 Honus Wagner? Way too good to be true. Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 17 08-17-2005 09:47 AM
This Is So True Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 3 03-08-2004 11:11 AM
This is True! Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 4 05-24-2003 11:35 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:39 PM.


ebay GSB