2015 Hall of Fame election

[bigtrain]

Thinking about tomorrow's big day in Cooperstown... and what about next year?
In addition to Biggio, Piazza and Bagwell, who came pretty close, next year's ballot includes Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz, Gary Sheffield, Carlos Delgado and Nomar Garciaparra. I figure Johnson and Martinez should get in on the first ballot. Anyone else have a chance?

[bcbgcbrcb]

I would go with Piazza, Smoltz maybe the second or third time around similar to R. Alomar. Biggio probably same as Smoltz.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Johnson Martinez and maybe Biggio.

[Nashvol]

Johnson, Smoltz, and Martinez...

[AMBST95]

I'd bet Johnson, smoltz, and biggio get in. Pedro will have to wait a year because people are stupid and Piazza will stay about where he was last year

[clydepepper]

Players will now only stay on the ballot for 10 years, not 15 - with Mattingly, Trammell. and Lee Smith being 'grandfathered' exceptions.

Voters will no longer be allowed to remain anonymous and can have their voting rights revoked if they do not comply to certain behavioral standards.

What do you think of these rule changes?


Pedro, RJ, & Smoltzie should all get in. 2016 will be clear enough for Biggio and perhaps Piazza

[Enfuego]

I would say Smoltz a 1st time go, Martinez and Big Unit all get in 1st ballot

[t206blogcom]

Smoltz and Johnson will get in and I wouldn't be surprised if it's on the first ballot.

Martinez is borderline for me.

No to the rest.

[ooo-ribay]

I need to post my standard rant:

Why is LaRussa, a manager whose success was heavily dependent on steroid players, a first ballot HOFer, while the players who made him successful are not getting a whiff? Torre, as well.

[CMIZ5290]

Johnson, Martinez, and Smoltz...

[glchen]

I took a look at Biggio's stats on baseball reference, and in his era, he dominates in .... plate appearances and hit by pitches ... I think he'll eventually get in because of 3000 hits, but I don't know if he deserves to get in.

I'd vote for Pedro and Randy. I think Smoltz deserves to get in but not on first ballot. Is Piazza known to be clean? I thought there was some doubt. If he's clean, he should go in b/c he was one of the best hitting catchers ever.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by glchen

Is Piazza known to be clean? I thought there was some doubt. If he's clean, he should go in b/c he was one of the best hitting catchers ever.

is Rickey Henderson KNOWN to be clean? Is Griffey, Jr. KNOWN to be clean?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I need to post my standard rant:

Why is LaRussa, a manager whose success was heavily dependent on steroid players, a first ballot HOFer, while the players who made him successful are not getting a whiff? Torre, as well.

I asked the same thing on another board. And the third guy (Bobby Cox) is a multiple-time spousal abuser.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I need to post my standard rant:

Why is LaRussa, a manager whose success was heavily dependent on steroid players, a first ballot HOFer, while the players who made him successful are not getting a whiff? Torre, as well.

Brilliant post, and I have been wondering the same for a long time now. How can you so readily celebrate the manager who oversaw the likes of McGwire, Canseco, Giambi and all the rest? He knew exactly what was going on, and is somehow not the least bit accountable? Really?

Very best case scenario is that he "turned a blind eye". Worst case is that he supported it, and even instructed them to partake. I think it's a tremendous double-standard, and can't believe it doesn't garner more attention and conversation.

[bobbvc]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Brilliant post, and I have been wondering the same for a long time now. How can you so readily celebrate the manager who oversaw the likes of McGwire, Canseco, Giambi and all the rest? He knew exactly what was going on, and is somehow not the least bit accountable? Really?

Very best case scenario is that he "turned a blind eye". Worst case is that he supported it, and even instructed them to partake. I think it's a tremendous double-standard, and can't believe it doesn't garner more attention and conversation.

Meanwhile the owners get a free pass (or even sympathy points from the really ignorant) even though as a group they profited the most BY FAR. Look at what John Moores paid for the Padres vs. what he sold them for. And that's small market. Franchise values skyrocketed when it looked like the '94 strike would "kill baseball". We should all have such ""good timing" as the Steroid era.

[bobbvc]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I need to post my standard rant:

Why is LaRussa, a manager whose success was heavily dependent on steroid players, a first ballot HOFer, while the players who made him successful are not getting a whiff? Torre, as well.

Pretty simple math really. All managers had some users and some cleans. They had to deal with what they had to work with, fair enough (not discounting payroll inequities, talent differences, etc.) Same as it's always been with Managers. The players who were juiced are being compared to guys who chose to stay clean. That's clearly not fair. Sure, some cheats will get in and some cleans will be "suspect" and not get in. What's new? FWIW if you saw my previous post, it starts with the Owners and just follow the money from there.

[the 'stache]

First ballot

Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
John Smoltz

Will also get in

Piazza
Biggio

Will eventually get in
Bagwell

Probably won't get in, but should
Carlos Delgado


John Smoltz might raise a few eyebrows as I have him as a first ballot Hall of Famer. I don't think he gets in on his first ballot, but if I were a voter, I would vote him in on my first ballot. Why? Value. John Smoltz for the entirety of his career was one of the most valuable, if not the most valuable pitchers, in baseball. Whatever the Braves needed from him, he did at an elite level. Start? Ok. He started, was one of the top 5 starters while he did it, winning a Cy Young Award in the process. Two years later he was 4th in the Cy Young voting again as a starter. He was outstanding the rest of the time. You could pencil him in for 15 or 16 wins every year. When you're the best team in your division, and in the National League, for that, teams are going to gun for you.

Then he got hurt, and missed a whole season. He came back the next season, and the Braves handled him with kid gloves. They had him start a few times, and close a few times. The next season, he came back with fury. He was now the best reliever in the game. For the next three seasons, he was Atlanta's closer, totaling 144 saves. Those three seasons, he averaged 48 saves with a 2.47 ERA and a 1.003 WHIP. He'd always been a strikeout pitcher, and he was as a closer, too, averaging a hair under 10 K/9 IP. A man who in 1996 won 24 games and struck out 276 hitters was now tossing up 55 games.

Then they needed him to be a starter again. And for another three years, he was one of the best starters in the game. 44 wins with a 3.22 ERA, and 577 strikeouts.

He played one final season at age 42 split between Boston and St. Louis. That should have never happened. He should have been a Brave for life. Regardless, Smoltz, won 213 games. He saved 154 and struck out 3,084 batters.

No other pitcher in the history of Major League Baseball has won 200 games and saved 150 games. Only Smoltz.

Oh, and I haven't even mentioned his post season play. Smoltzie appeared in 41 post season games, and the Braves won 28 of them. Smoltz himself was 15-4 with 4 saves, with a 2.67 ERA, 199 K in 209 IP. Opponents hit .211 off of him. Their OBP was .284. Their slugging was a paltry .336. The best hitters in baseball put up a .620 OPS against him.

He could hit, too. He won a Silver Slugger Award in 1997. He hit 5 home runs and drove in 61 runs in his career.

If the Hall of Fame honors greatness, I don't know how a pitcher could be greater. He did it all. He did everything his team ever asked of him, and he did it at the highest level possible.

[Orioles1954]

Cue the specious "the Hall of Fame is way, way watered down" argument that has somehow gained a footing....(only heaven knows why)

Quite simply, if Craig Biggio is not inducted the whole institution lacks any semblance of credibility.

3000+ hits, 400+ stolen bases, nearly 300 home runs, four gold gloves.

If he put up those numbers in New York or Boston he'd be mentioned among the greatest ever and statues would be erected everywhere. As such, a lack of exposure in Houston or having played on perennially great teams hurts him.

[clydepepper]

Pedro, RJ, & Smoltzie should be first ballot


Mike Mussina & Curt Schilling should also get in within a few years.

The ERA (formerly called the Veterans Committee) committee needs to vote in Luis Tiant!!