Cards stolen at the National

[Tony Gordon]

I had a binder of early Bowman and '52 Topps baseball stolen from my booth today (341). The cards are commons in off grade condition. The '50 Bowmans were in 12-pocket sheets while the other years were in 9 pockets and the '52 Topps in 8 pocket sheets. Each card was in an individual sleeve and priced in a blue Sharpie. I know it is a shot in the dark but if anyone sees them this weekend, or down the road in their shop or at another show, please PM me. Thanks! - Tony Gordon

[Jcfowler6]

That blows. I was selling some cards at a pawn shop I managed back in the early 90's. I had an employee that didn't know much about the cards and the kid in there swapped a bunch of hof players into common holders with $.10 stickers. So the kid got away with some good stuff for $1.

I know the feeling. Feel for ya.

[leftygrove10]

That's too bad, Tony... I hope you are able to recover the cards...

Does insurance generally cover losses like that at a card show?

[bobbyw8469]

Dang....that is terrible......sorry for your loss.

[jp1216]

Good Luck Tony. Hope a good ending follows.

[scottglevy]

Originally Posted by leftygrove10

That's too bad, Tony... I hope you are able to recover the cards...

Does insurance generally cover losses like that at a card show?

Collectibles insurance typically does. Last year at the national the guy we were sharing a booth with had a Johnson T206 swiped from our table -- which was embarrassing for me because I think it happened on my watch. But he recovered his losses with the insurance he had.

[Brendan]

Really sorry to hear that. I hope you end up finding it.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Sorry to hear about that.

Unfortunately, from what I was told several years ago from a long-time dealer that this is an on-going problem at the Chicago shows. He's been ripped-off several times there in the past 8 years and so have many others at that venue as well as others in that region.

I commented on this on the CU Board with the user name "dude" several years ago:

http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=589377

[danski496]

Hope you're able to catch the individual.

[Tony Gordon]

Thanks guys. I talked with just about every vintage dealer at the show and most all of them have some sort of story about being ripped off at a major show. One dealer told me his car was stolen out of the parking lot at the '08 National. There are some war stories out there. At this show, several other dealers were hit yesterday. The dealer behind my booth lost a '63 Topps set, another dealer lost a '53 Bowman Color set, and a dealer had a '65 Topps Namath rookie stolen yesterday. I also received a call a short time ago from a dealer who had a binder stolen today. I think now is the time to start a dialogue about increasing security at the National. I would like to see more security personnel on the floor, security cameras and "spotters" out looking for thieves.

[barrysloate]

It's outrageous that vendors have to deal with this. The show should have better security. Sorry to hear about your loss Tony.

[HOF Yankees]

Tony good luck I hope you get back your cards. I agree with very high end stuff at a national sports collectors convention the security should be increased

[383astro]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

Thanks guys. I talked with just about every vintage dealer at the show and most all of them have some sort of story about being ripped off at a major show. One dealer told me his car was stolen out of the parking lot at the '08 National. There are some war stories out there. At this show, several other dealers were hit yesterday. The dealer behind my booth lost a '63 Topps set, another dealer lost a '53 Bowman Color set, and a dealer had a '65 Topps Namath rookie stolen yesterday. I also received a call a short time ago from a dealer who had a binder stolen today. I think now is the time to start a dialogue about increasing security at the National. I would like to see more security personnel on the floor, security cameras and "spotters" out looking for thieves.

Holy Crap, monetarily losing those 2 sets would be like losing my whole collection.

[rainier2004]

I hate thieves...as a buyer Im in huge support for increased security as well. I would volunteer my time and pay for a background check and "spot" all day for 3 days for free admission on day 1. Im amazed at how trusting dealers are at the shows but it provides for a wonderful environment just like when you were a kid. Id pay more for my ticket if I knew the $$$ was for extra security as well.

[carrigansghost]

National background clearance already done on me. I have also installed many surveillance systems and would be more than willing to work for free. I also look the part of a lowlife.

Rawn

[whitehse]

Walking the show floor yesterday I do not recall seeing a single cop or security person inside the convention all. Being a former loss prevention person, there were many times through the day that I noticed it would have been so easy to steal a card, a binder or just about anything because of the lack of attention by some dealers. I found myself sitting at a number of tables going through boxes where the dealer didnt even acknowledge my existance and was preoccupied with their phone or computer. I could have filled the bag I had with a good amount of cards and faded into the crowd.

I think the National promoters might need to provide a mandatory security class that has the cost built into the price of the booths as many of the dealers (not all) didnt seem to have a clue as to how to keep their stuff secure.

Again, this is coming from someone who has 15 years of retail loss prevention experience. I wanted to say to a few of the dealers I dealt with "is this item free because they way you have it on your table it will be gone by the end of the day" but I kept my mouth shut.

[mintacular]

I walked past a major auction house table at a recent show and there was a 10K+ '52 Topps Mantle that I could've snatched as the dealer had his back to me and the glass dealer case was half-open. I remember looking around and thinking "Why is the case open like that and nobody is watching?" I also remember another dealer telling me a story how the first day of the national many of his best cards were swiped (Aaron rc's, etc.)

[7nohitter]

I don't know if I could have restrained myself, Minty!

[Big Ben]

First and most importantly, I hope that you find your cards Tony.

Just to add to this thread, at the National today, I asked a dealer to see a T206 Cobb. The dealer was very nice and let me see the card while he was having an in depth conversation with another person. I looked the card over and decided that I didn't want the card so I patiently waited for the dealer to recognize me in order for me to return his card. After I returned the card to the dealer, I told my friend that I was with that if I was an unscrupulous person, I could have very easily walked away with the card and the dealer may have realized his loss at a much later time. I couldn't believe it!

[ruth-gehrig]

Sorry to hear about your loss. Hope it ends up working out for you! I always assumed this had to happen all over at the National (I've only been to 2). It suprises the heck out of me.....the value in merchandise in that HUGE room and very little security. Incredible

[tbob]

There were two guys walking around, not even sure if they were security guys but both look like they could have been batboys for the 1943 Cardinals as they were about 80 years old at least
I had a friend lose a complete 60's set of cards in the binder, snatched right off his table. These guys are getting clever, they travel in groups of 2 or 3 and while the others keep the dealers busy, the lone scum sets a hollow bottom box right on top of the binder and viola' the cards disappear. I saw a security camera in the Center but it was not aimed at any of the tables (figures) and may not even have been turned on. It's a damn shame that the National doesn't provide some kind of security. They make darn sure you don't re-enter without having been stamped, there were 6 or 7 individuals manning this arduous (sarcasm intended) task but not one real security guy. Damn shame...

[E93]

I heard several stories of stuff being stolen off tables this year. Another board member has a '63 Topps set stolen off his table and the guy at the booth behind him also lost a notebook.
JimB

[Leon]

Our whole hobby is built on trust and honor. That being said there is so much money in it there are bound to be scoundrels. They don't care about the hobby they just want to scam people. Those people need to be caught and tar and feathered in public sight (imo). There absolutely needs to be more security cameras. Good points.

[murcerfan]

How much do you think most dealers would pay for a weeks rental on a security camera/ recorder set-up?

Hello..... Levi?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by murcerfan

How much do you think most dealers would pay for a weeks rental on a security camera/ recorder set-up?

Hello..... Levi?

\

They could charge $25-$50 more per table and have a great camera security system.....I would pay it.

[DanP]

I install security camera's for friends and family (as a hobby). There are complete camera systems that can be purchased now for just a few hundred dollars. The system includes the DVR and starts with 4 camera's. I would guess that the total cost would be around $500 including the monitor. If you could request a booth next to a friend(or friends) you could all share the cost. They are extremely easy to setup (even if you just have basic computer skills).

Another option if you are already bringing a laptop is a stand-alone IP camera. These camera's can record to your hard drive or an SD card inserted in the camera. These camera's start at around $75. They also are not very difficult to setup.

I've installed all different types (Panasonic, Vivotek, Samsung, etc.) Basically even the inexpensive camera's would have a great picture for setup you would need.

Here's one that I just installed at our local golf course:
http://www.lorextechnology.com/secur...FQMPbAod13Qz4w

If it were me I would not expect that any security guards would help. The place is just to big. For them to install camera's that would be able to see each table would be incredibly expensive (they will never do it).

If you had your own system you could mount the camera's on a pole pointing exactly where you need them.

I would think the thieves would probably just go to another table if they saw a video surveillance system at your booth.

Good luck!

[Mark]

Dan
Good post. I suppose setting up a couple of cameras would do the trick, even if they didn't record anything.

[DanP]

Originally Posted by Mark

Dan
Good post. I suppose setting up a couple of cameras would do the trick, even if they didn't record anything.

Yes, they have camera's that work on batteries that just blink, add a sign and you're all set.
http://www.hughessecuritysolutions.n...utions_s/4.htm


Dan

[Leon]

Originally Posted by DanP

I install security camera's for friends and family (as a hobby). There are complete camera systems that can be purchased now for just a few hundred dollars. The system includes the DVR and starts with 4 camera's. I would guess that the total cost would be around $500 including the monitor. If you could request a booth next to a friend(or friends) you could all share the cost. They are extremely easy to setup (even if you just have basic computer skills).



Good luck!

I think for the whole National Convention, and as large of an area as is needed to have surveillance, it would be way, way more than $500. I am sure $500 would be great for a fairly small area. I could imagine it costing $50k for the whole Convention......so 1000 tables times $50 would be about right. Then the system could be used over and over again. That price could maybe include installation too. Just a layperson's guesstimate on my part. LL

[murcerfan]

OK...free business idea for someone (Levi) buy 10 systems at bulk for 3k. rent them at shows for $60/each... $100/ea at national, 3 shows and a national and it's all profit (less maitainence and cost of transporting gear)

[teetwoohsix]

Wow, that sucks. Hope you get your cards back somehow Tony.

All of these cards that get stolen have to end up eventually being sold somewhere, whether it be on ebay, a personal website, or a local card shop.

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to have a website dedicated to listing scans of stolen cards that potential buyers ,sellers and/or theft victims could use to possibly aid in capturing the thieves. Just a thought.

Sincerely, Clayton

[DanP]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think for the whole National Convention, and as large of an area as is needed to have surveillance, it would be way, way more than $500. I am sure $500 would be great for a fairly small area. I could imagine it costing $50k for the whole Convention......so 1000 tables times $50 would be about right. Then the system could be used over and over again. That price could maybe include installation too. Just a layperson's guesstimate on my part. LL

Yes, the $500 was just to cover up to 4 tables (4 camera's). Even an idiot wouldn't think 4 camera's and $500 could cover the whole convention hall. LOL!!

I would think at least 2 camera's per booth, that is 2000 camera's. The $50k number could work renting from some large video surveillance company. Again, I don't see it happening. I was suggesting to take care of the problem yourself. Once you buy the system you have it forever and can use it over and over again.

Dan

[CowboysGuide]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Wow, that sucks. Hope you get your cards back somehow Tony.

All of these cards that get stolen have to end up eventually being sold somewhere, whether it be on ebay, a personal website, or a local card shop.

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to have a website dedicated to listing scans of stolen cards that potential buyers ,sellers and/or theft victims could use to possibly aid in capturing the thieves. Just a thought.

Sincerely, Clayton

Love this idea. Maybe a new section on this forum...?

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by CowboysGuide

Love this idea. Maybe a new section on this forum...?

Thanks Steve.

I think it would be a great resource for everyone, including people's cards that get lost in the mail too. As far as being a section on this forum, not my place to say- I'll leave that to the powers that be ( hi Leon )

Also, as much as I'd love to take credit for the idea, I highly doubt I'm the first one to come up with this concept.

I've just seen a lot of threads since I've been on this site pertaining to stolen & lost cards/collections, and know most of us try to keep scans or photos of our collections, and figured maybe this type of thing could help get the cards back to the hands they belong in.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Leon]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Thanks Steve.

I think it would be a great resource for everyone, including people's cards that get lost in the mail too. As far as being a section on this forum, not my place to say- I'll leave that to the powers that be ( hi Leon )

Also, as much as I'd love to take credit for the idea, I highly doubt I'm the first one to come up with this concept.

I've just seen a lot of threads since I've been on this site pertaining to stolen & lost cards/collections, and know most of us try to keep scans or photos of our collections, and figured maybe this type of thing could help get the cards back to the hands they belong in.

Sincerely, Clayton

Hi Clayton
Yes, this idea of a "missing cards" section has been mentioned before. However, besides this National there really aren't a lot of cards that go missing. I can think of about 2-3 posts a year (maybe) where someone's cards get lost or stolen. I don't like to add sections that won't get much viewing but it's not a bad idea and one to certainly mull over. best regards

[dherm360]

Maybe you could start with a single thread that just gets lost/stolen cards added to as these unfortunate things occur and keep the replies only to items that are missing not to clutter the post

[a761506]

I don't think security cameras would do a thing to deter theft in that environment. The basic problem I saw was that dealers just didn't pay enough attention, and many booths were under-manned during peak hours. Most retail stores in malls don't have security camera's, and if they do, it's usually a camera watching the registers (essentially monitoring the employees). The way they train their employees to reduce theft is by providing good customer service. Someone who is being engaged by an employee is far less likely to attempt to steal than someone to whom no attention is paid. A camera can't fix that. Obviously, theft cannot be avoided altogether no matter how much effort is taken, but it certainly can be reduced if more attention is paid to the customer.

[HaloFan]

I can add to what Josh said regarding undermanned tables at the National. One table that had a bunch of binders for set builders had an assistant working behind the collectors. I thought he was a customer but he was there to help and keep track of who was buying what. That was the only set building table I remember that had something like that.

Craig