Tracking And Grouping Polar Bear Print Defects

[Pat R]

After talking with Jantz at the National about "plate scratches" that are found
on some of the Polar Bears I've been working on the Polar Bear scans I have.

Most of the "scratches are a fairly straight vertical line similar to a roller mark.
Shaw 2.jpg

However I have found a few angled horizontal lines similar to the PD 150's.
Moran - Copy.jpg

I'm not sure if any side by side subjects can be connected with these (so far all of the
subjects I have with the vertical and horizontal scratches are print group 2) but
I have found a large number (all print group 3-4 and 5 subjects) with print defects.

McQuillan - Hummel.jpg

These groups of print defects seem to occur in groups of three like the Bergen-Bradley-doolan missing the ie.
Bergen-Bradley-Doolan.jpg
Mathewson - Meyers - Pelty.jpg

There are also examples of different defects found on the same subjects.
Young - Conroy 1.jpg Young - Conroy 2.jpg

The subjects with the same defects would have been in the same sheet position on different sheets.

If you have any Polar bears with scratches or defects please post them in this
thread.

[Pat R]

Here's a couple of more trio's'
Burch - Chase (Black Cap)-Murray.jpg
Marquard - Pfeffer.jpg
Marquard PB - Copy.jpg

There's another Marquard with a different mark.
The pattern has stayed consistent so far so there should also be
some Pfeffer's and Sweeney's with this mark.
Marquard PB - (2).jpg

[Jantz]

Good research Pat!

I was aware of & seen the Mathewson-Meyers-Pelty before. Board member Chris R. pointed out these 3 cards to me back in April and we exchanged a couple emails discussing the back similarities of these 3 cards.

Here are a few more examples with the vertical line. The players are Scott, Davidson, Milan and Shaw.

[rommesc]

Hi Pat,

Looked through my Polar Bear cards and have a few with scratches that run diagonal.
1) Manning(missing corner)
2) Kruger
3) Slagle - faint scratch extending from bottom toward edge

[rommesc]

Pat,

Thank you for compiling this information and sharing the research. Have been tracking these print defects as well. Agree with your theory about these subjects sharing the same position on the print plates used for Polar Bear cards. Besides the Mathewson/Meyers/Pelty that share the same back marking, I also have these two cards:
1) Tannehill(Follow through)
2) Cy Young

[Jantz]

I took some time and looked at about half of my Polar Bears. Sorry to say that I have no matches on the cards posted so far in this thread.

Here are a few things I did see on the backs of the cards I checked out.

These 3 cards had plate scratches on the backs. O'Leary (hok), Lajoie and Ritter.

Purtell & Jack White have vertical lines in almost the same spots as the 4 other cards I listed in my earlier post.

Doc White has a ink splotch in the "e" of Bear along with a crop line (+) in the upper right corner.

My Pelty, Sweeney, Conroy and Slagle were different than the cards you posted, meaning the print was clean or they didn't have a plate scratch on them.

My Meyers card was different in the fact that the "s" in the second "always" had a ink splotch dividing the letter.

When I get some time in the next few days I will take a look at the rest of my Polar Bears and post up anything that may help.

Jantz

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by rommesc

Hi Pat,

Looked through my Polar Bear cards and have a few with scratches that run diagonal.
1) Manning(missing corner)
2) Kruger
3) Slagle - faint scratch extending from bottom toward edge

Hi Chris,
I have scans of a kruger but comparing them to your scans I think it's actually your card.
Kruger.jpgKruger PB.jpg

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Jantz

I took some time and looked at about half of my Polar Bears. Sorry to say that I have no matches on the cards posted so far in this thread.

Here are a few things I did see on the backs of the cards I checked out.

These 3 cards had plate scratches on the backs. O'Leary (hok), Lajoie and Ritter.

Purtell & Jack White have vertical lines in almost the same spots as the 4 other cards I listed in my earlier post.

Doc White has a ink splotch in the "e" of Bear along with a crop line (+) in the upper right corner.

My Pelty, Sweeney, Conroy and Slagle were different than the cards you posted, meaning the print was clean or they didn't have a plate scratch on them.

My Meyers card was different in the fact that the "s" in the second "always" had a ink splotch dividing the letter.

When I get some time in the next few days I will take a look at the rest of my Polar Bears and post up anything that may help.

Jantz

Hi Jantz,
I went through my scans because I thought I remembered seeing defects similar to the ones you describe on your Doc White and Meyers. I didn't find any but I did discover a Cobb (Red Port) that matched one of the Camnitz (H.A.H,)/Mullin (With Bat ) pairs.
Cobb-Camnitz.jpg

[Jantz]

Hi Pat,

I checked my Cobb (red) & both Camnitz (hah) that I have and neither had the print defect as those you've posted. No Mullin in my possession yet, so nothing to compare it to.

The fact that you found a Camnitz that matches is impressive. He is a tougher player to find with a Polar Bear back. I do know that he held multiple positions on a sheet since one of my Camnitzs is a two-namer.

Took some time tonight and looked thru a few more of my Polar Bears and have noted these defects on them. I also wanted to get the names in this thread as a reference for you & Chris.

Here is a list of my cards with notable defects.

Marquard is clean with no defects like those you posted.

Howell (hah) - The letter "s" in best is broken up by an ink splotch.

Griffith (batting) - The letter "l" in Polar is broken up by an ink splotch.

Nichols (batting) - The letter "P" in Polar is broken up by a ink splotch.

Perring - Has a plate scratch running the width of the card thru the word Bear.

O'Neil - Has a vertical line much like those on the Scott & others I've mentioned.

Davis (Davis on front) - Ink splotch very similar to the second Marquard you posted. Also notice the "s" in best. Scan below.

As always, Pat & Chris, please feel free to contact me if you need any help or want me to check any of my Polar Bears.

Jantz

[Pat R]

Jantz,

Here's another Davis like yours.
Davis copy.jpg

and here's a McGraw (Port) that matches.
McGraw - Copy.jpg

And a Griffith (Batting) like the one you describe that also has part of the "P"
blocked/missing in scrap.
Griffith 2 - Copy.jpg

[Jantz]

My Griffith is a match. Now to find the other two players.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by Jantz

My Griffith is a match. Now to find the other two players.

It must be a combination of to many scans and not keeping track of them
better. I had put the Griffith with McQuillan and Hummel but I didn't
update it here when I did.
McQuillan - Hummel - Griffith.jpg

[JerryTotino]

Hi Pat,

I own two PB's that have the "N" in BEEN either partially or fully missing.

The attached Smith (Chicago & Boston) has the "N" totally missing and a Magee (Batting) has about 90% of the "N" missing. I cannot seem to get the Magee scan to load though.

I can send you scan if you like and maybe you can get it to load.

Thanks,

Jerry

Smith Chicago and Boston PB Back Raw PB Back SGC 40193.jpg

[edhans]

Remarkable work again, Pat. Great stuff! Wish I had something to add, but I have only another example of the Sweeney with the chunk out of the "O" in Polar.

[Pat R]

Thank You Ed. Is your Sweeny missing a chunk in the top left or bottom left
of the O?

Patrick

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by JerryTotino

Hi Pat,

I own two PB's that have the "N" in BEEN either partially or fully missing.

The attached Smith (Chicago & Boston) has the "N" totally missing and a Magee (Batting) has about 90% of the "N" missing. I cannot seem to get the Magee scan to load though.

I can send you scan if you like and maybe you can get it to load.

Thanks,

Jerry

Attachment 248973

Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the new info.

That would be great, do you still have my email?

The Smith is a new one. I did have a scan of the Magee but yours is probably better.
Magee Missing N.jpg

[edhans]

Originally Posted by Pat R

Is your Sweeny missing a chunk in the top left or bottom left
of the O?

Patrick

At the top. It's identical to the one you showed in your second post. I can't post a picture as the image is too big, but it can be viewed on my website below.

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by edhans

At the top. It's identical to the one you showed in your second post. I can't post a picture as the image is too big, but it can be viewed on my website below.

Thanks Ed.

For anyone that hasn't checked out Ed's site I highly recommend it.
A nice selection of pre-war, good prices and Ed is a pleasure to deal with.

Patrick

[Pat R]

A couple more pairs, looking for a third match.
Brown, M. - Jordan.jpg
Reulbach -Schlei.jpg

[mybuddyinc]

Pat, et. al.

Double checked, then triple checked, all my PBs (~40). Nothing

All of mine have perfectly normal backs ...........


................... wish I had something to contribute ...... but fun to check

Maybe in the future, Scott

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by mybuddyinc

Pat, et. al.

Double checked, then triple checked, all my PBs (~40). Nothing

All of mine have perfectly normal backs ...........


................... wish I had something to contribute ...... but fun to check

Maybe in the future, Scott

Thanks for checking your PB's Scott.

I found the match to Reulbach/Schlei
Berger PB 2 - Copy.jpg
Berger 2 - Copy.jpg
Reulbach -Schlei.jpg

[Jantz]

Hi Pat

Found a few more Polar Bears in a box that I missed earlier. Check out the back on this Frill. Looks a lot like the backs on Berger/Reulbach/Schlei.

Jantz