a couple t206's that ended on ebay last night

[Archive]

Posted By: dave

i dont have the exact ending amounts, but off the top of my head, i think the T206 Demmitt, St Louis, which was a PSA 1, went for $1200 and some change. I thought that was a little high? Also, I strongly looked at going after a T206 Mcgraw (glove on hip) with a red hindu back, it was a really bad looking SGC 1.5, it went for $228. Wasn't sure if that was a fair price for it with that back or not, the other thing that kept me away was I would have wanted to get a PSA grade on it and it had a piece in the corner missing, didn't think PSA would grade anything but authentic.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bobby

The Demmitt went for 1226.33 which is a little high most 1's go for the $900-$1000 range. And the Mcgraw Red Hindu is a SGC 10 not a 20 that went for 228.49, there is so little sales on Red Hindu's that have been graded to give a comparable.

[Archive]

Posted By: dave

assuming bobby you viewed the mcgraw card then? would your thoughts be that psa would have just graded with authentic instead of a 1?

[Archive]

Posted By: ScottIngold

Dave,


I have one if your interested.

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

i was the seller on both. the mcgraw would have graded psa 1....i think. it was an sgc 10.

another card, the sgc 20 mcgraw portrait "orange" variation was a steal at $88.....to a board member

the demmitt has a little story behind it. one i am not super proud of, but i will come clean now.....

i was offered $1500 to end the auction. i have never, ever ended an auction before. so i cancelled bids until there were none....only to learn (as i said, i've never done this before) that i couldn't cancel a listing with less than 12 hours to go.....nor could i change the price.

so i have a friend who won the auction (for 1228ish) and he will sell to the person who requested that i end the auction.

i am very familiar with demmitt and how much that "1" is worth, i thought the bidding would go no higher than a grand....so for the first time ever....i said yes to someone requesting that i end the auction early.

as i said, i am not real proud of what i did....regarding trying to end the auction early. but i am pleased with the sale price of 1500.

it killed me to cancel bids from tbob, cobby, and a few other id's that i recognized.

guys, you have my sincere apology.

regards
andy becker

[Archive]

Posted By: dave

do you have any other red hindu backs your going to be looking at unloading?


scott- yours is a psa 1? what are you asking? can you post a front and back scan? if needed my email is dfaust@blountconstruction.com

[Archive]

Posted By: Matt E.

I don't know any of you guys but feel like I do from the different posts.... nor can I pass judgment, but aren't some things left better unsaid?

Positive Feedback Guaranteed


edited for spelling

[Archive]

Posted By: Bobby

I think the card would get a PSA 1 because I think the AUTHENTIC grade is for cards that are real but tampered with...trimmed, re-colored, etc.. I don't think that applies to that card it's just a beater.

[Archive]

Posted By: bigfish

I sold a red hindu Mcgraw in an SGC 40 holder for 1200 last month. I have also sold a Demmitt in a 1 holder for 800 and a Demmitt 3mk for 1000. Hope this info. helps.

[Archive]

Posted By: dave

yes, that helps, i realize the cards i ask about are maybe a bit strange to desire, but i'm by no means a mainstream deep pocket collector, and enjoy just having fun and going after what appeals to me at the time.

[Archive]

Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Is that true, Bobby? Every unaltered card qualifies for a numerical grade. And only altered cards get a grade of authentic (unless specially requested to be graded Authentic)?

[Archive]

Posted By: bigfish

your inquiry was not strange at all.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

No worries- Look forward to doing more biz with you-

[Archive]

Posted By: ScottIngold

Dave,

It is an SGC 20 holder. I will send a scan.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bobby

Gilbert,

Has to be that way I have seen some PSA 1's and SGC 10's that have been so beaten up. And most of the time the Authenics look nice so you know they are altered in some way.

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

i should explain a bit further. the reason i gave "too much information" is because i do not think the demmitt would have sold for 1200 if i had not asked a friend to bid that high to, in affect, end the auction.

so, in answering the original post, i felt i should disclose that the final price was not indicative of a "true" auction. rather more indicative of a imaginary BIN.

sorry for not being clear the first time.

no, i do not have any other red hindus for sale.

cobby, thanks man....i appreciate the kind words.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Evanov

Agree with Matt E.

I'm curious, if someone bid $2000 for the card on EBAY, who would have gotten it? The actual high bidder or the guy who offered $1500?

Frank

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

one more thing, yes it would have been better to leave this unsaid. but, i consider myself an honest person and i had a very bad feeling canceling the bids of friends.
i also had to be somewhat evasive with another board member (i didn't recognize your ebay id until i saw it again here, sorry) in an exchange of emails.

so, i thought it best to come clean rather than leave people scratching their heads.

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

frank,
the card was sold yesterday afternoon.....for 1500.
someone would have had to mistake the demmitt for the 300k wagner to win the auction.
the only thing in question was how much i would pay in ebay fees.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D.

I didn't know that was you running the auction! I wouldn't have pestered you so much

Don't worry at all about ending that auction early - and it shows character to explain yourself so candidly.

I have purchased from you in the past (it is still one of my favorite items), and would look to do so in the future.

congrats on the sale.

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh K.

Andy - Ive got no problem with you ending the auction early. what I dont understand is why the guy who offered 1500 would still pay 1500 knowing that the auction wouldnt have come close to that amount - further, why in the world would he not have just bid 1500 himself rather than have your friend do it? Obviously your friend wasnt going to bid more than 1500. If the guy just did it himself, he would have saved close to $300.

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

Andy- I was the high bidder on the demmitt, i was NOT happy yesterday, i wrote you twice to see what the deal was...and no response. just so you know my high bid AT THE TIME was $1000, but i was prepared to go A LOT higher, i have a low grade o'hara, and NEEDED the low grade demmitt, even though it had the crease, it was better than the 3 (mk), with that horrible pen mark...guess you'll never know how high i would've went...here's a hint: it would have been more than $1500...check my recent purchases (egan 9: $8400, donovan 9: $8900)...i would've gone high...not cool, man.

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh K.

I know some people dont like when sellers end auctions early - frankly, I hate it when its a card I want. However, its their card, they can end an auction and choose to sell it to whoever they want, whenever they want.

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul Moss

I had a PSA 2 sell a couple of months ago for 2030.00.......... mentioned for the record.

I do not end auctions early. Doesn't stop them trying though.


When are card collectors going to get a grip on reality and quit the chiseling business by waiting until the last 10 seconds of an auction before bidding?

"Well I might get run up.......", listen Nimrods, it's going to happen anyway, God forbid you should actually pay a market price for the card. Waiting until the last few seconds only encourages people that were on the fence to jump in and attempt to rip.

"Well I was going to bid X dollars" well you didn't....you placed a bid, it wasn't enough, should have bid your max.......end of discussion.

Recently, after communicating and trading emails with a potential bidder on a vintage item that he HAD to have, I told him to get his bid in. Did he? Ohhhhh nooooooo, another last minute Johnnie, his power went out a couple of minutes before the lot closed, and of course he was out of the game. He then has the audacity to offer me $500 to "lose" the card for the winning bidder and sell to him instead.

Games, games, games

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

moss- just as you say "the seller is able to end an auction, if he wants, its his cards"...(which is actually a faux-pa on eBay), but anyway, i am free to bid however i want...early on in the auction, i felt $1000 was the number on the demmitt, but was actually just about to up my bid, because i started to feel that it was worth more to me (again i also have a low grade o'hara, and the 2 cards would have looked good together)...(if you check the bid history on the donovan 9 & the egan 9, you will see that as the auction progresses, i study, research and revise my high bid)...it is a process , not just one quick bid...plus i actually am not a snipper, i up my bidding as i see fit, as the auction evolves.

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

thanks joe, you were all over me.

josh, thanks for the kind words. and josh, you ask some good questions.....i cannot explain the buyer's thinking.
i will say that i have dealt with him before and his feedback is huge and rock solid. and, just to be clear....my friend's bid was well in access of the selling price. the card was sold for $1500 before the auction ended, if the auction ended at $3000.....the card was still sold for $1500. that's the gamble i took.


mvsnyc,
as i said in an earlier post, i do not feel good about ending the auction. and you do have my sincere apology.

but, i think you need to really examine why you were so frustrated. imo, you were hoping to win the card for under you bid of 1000....and you probably would have. i understand your frustration, but perhaps you should walk a block in my shoes.


now, let's get to the details of the situation....

the card was bid up to $422 with 10 hours to go. the last psa 1 sold for $800+, and as already mentioned the last psa 3 mk sold for $1000.

how many collectors/dealers would not end an auction for an offer of $1500?
while this card is rare, it is not that rare in lower grade and there has been a price range already established.

i'm not saying that i am proud of what i did, but i think the rational behind what i did is obvious.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe D.

I will give you a good deal on my Demmitt St. Louis GAI authentic.

just email me.... joe@internetville.com

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul Moss

moss- just as you say "the seller is able to end an auction, if he wants, its his cards"...(which is actually a faux-pa on eBay), but anyway, i am free to bid however i want...early on in the auction,


Where on earth did I ever say that? I never said that ever!!!

It is a faux pas

and indeed, you are free to bid anyway, anyhow, and anywhere you wish.......and get the rug pulled out from under you with incremental bidding.

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh K.

Actually, it was me who said that sellers could end the auction whenever they want. To be precise, I said:

"they can end an auction and choose to sell it to whoever they want, whenever they want."

I also do not agree that this is a faux pas on ebay - buyers may not like it, but its certainly not a rules violation to end an auction early prior to the last 12 hours. If it were, ebay wouldnt have a procedure for doing so. One of the permissible reasons to end an auction early is that the item is no longer for sale. When a seller ends an auction to sell off line, that is exactly what has occured - the item is no longer for sale - on ebay. It doesnt mean you can never sell the item again or cant sell it to someone off line.

In fact, there is no law that prohibits selling items listed on ebay off line - just like if you are selling a house, there is nothing that stops you from deciding not to sell. The only reason ebay cares and tries at all to make it difficult to end auctions is that they dont want to lose too much in final value fees.

Now, all that being said, it would probably be easier if sellers just placed reserves on their items and let the auctions run their course - of course the response to that is that buyers often dont bid on items with reserves because they are afraid they wont get a good deal. The bottom line is (and Im just as guilty as the next person) buyers do everything in their power (snipes, staying away from reserve items, etc) to get as low a price as possible. Why shouldnt sellers be able to do the same. I would bet anything that if ebay had a 10 minute rule at the end of an auction or 10% bid increments like auction houses, you would almost never see auctions ending early.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

Nimrods??? Hmmm...

eBay specifically allows ending auctions early. One of the "reasons" from the pull-down menu is to sell to the currently-high bidder. If someone has a problem with this policy, take it up with eBay. Personally, it has worked to my benefit and against me. I've never ended one early as a seller, but as a buyer, I have made offers if it's something I "have to" have. Everyone else is free to do the same thing.

[Archive]

Posted By: oldbb

so i cancelled bids until there were none....only to learn (as i said, i've never done this before) that i couldn't cancel a listing with less than 12 hours to go.....nor could i change the price.

so i have a friend who won the auction (for 1228ish) and he will sell to the person who requested that i end the auction.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

I don't think Andy did a classic "shill." eBay is ridiculous with their policies. I had en error in a lsiting (wrong scan) that wasn't pointed out until less than 12 hours before the auction was to end and eBay woudn't let me remove the listing! So, sometimes, that's your only option. Now...those sellers who truly shill to run up the bids (and who hopefully get stuck eating their own card), need to be removed from eBay.

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

well oldbb....
couple things:

1. what's your name?
2. even though i don't know your name, i imagine that if i contacted you and said you can make a few hundred $'s by winning my auction and selling to mr y (next in line from "mr x") that you would do it in a heartbeat.

i don't think a shill can win the auction and still be a shill. maybe you can enlighten me.

i admit that i am in a gray area here, but when you say "shill", you have crossed the line.

so again,.....who am i replying to?

[Archive]

Posted By: oldbb

Andy,

I have done nothing wrong not stating my name and I am not personally slamming anyone. As a matter of fact I copied and pasted your words and made a link to Site Map on Ebay. That's it.


Just pointing out what you typed and what the Ebay policies are. Sorry Ebay has no gray area. With all due respect the auction was not ended, it was bid up by a friend you contacted.

If I am wrong on this I will admit it. You are rationalizing. Thank you I have made my point.

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

whatever guys...we all know it's not cool.

Andy-

apology accepted, i'm a resonable guy, BUT next time i'll think twice about bidding on your stuff...let's face it, you got scared and pulled it...my advice: next time start the bidding higher, or set a reserve, a seller should know that he is vunerable without a reserve, that's a risk one takes.

Moss-

sorry for miss quoting you.

Joe D.-

thanks for the offer, but i'll pass.

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

actually, you have done something wrong oldbb.

you have used my auction and shill in the same sentence.

since you're such a stickler for rules.....how about following this board's rules and letting me know who is making such point.

see, we all (mostly) know each other here. i don't know you and when i click on your name to email you your email address is "oldbb"

now maybe you think you're smarter, better, whatever than the rest of us.....but per this boards rules, if you're gonna mix it up....you need to use your name.....not hide behind an alias.

from the tone of your post and the tone of some emails i received tuesday, i'm thinking we have spoke before.

[Archive]

Posted By: oldbb

Andy,

I am just a long time lurker and an occasional poster
who is certainly not better than anyone here.

I am not mixing it up or attacking anyone, just stating my thoughts.

I apologize if I have offended you regarding your confession on your auction

I still feel I am right.

Thanks this will be my last post on this topic that neither party can win.

oldbb

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

occasional poster, huh....

i seached oldbb and saw about six hits.....and from this one, it looks like you enjoy "mixing it up" and hiding behind an alias.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1150745488/

post away, or don't....i won't be responding anymore to you until i know who you are.

[Archive]

Posted By: ScottIngold

Your name should be by the post ! If you accuse someone at least give them the right to know who you are.

Why would Andy bring this whole thing up if he pulled it ?

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh K.

From where I sit, Andy absolutely did NOT shill this auction. A shill is someone who bids up a card so that someone else is stuck as the winner with a higher ending price. Andy's friend intended to win the auction. Sorry, not a shill, whether Andy asked him to bid on the card or not.

As for OLDBB - you absolutely need to put your name by your post above. However, as noted above by Leon (in the link provided by Andy) you apparently have a history of hiding behind your id. How about growing a set.

[Archive]

Posted By: Scott Gutwein

Andy,
As a long time lurker and observer I find your aggressive approach towards oldbb very interesting.

Obviously you made a dishonest and selfish transaction and came to the decision to make it right which in my opinion you have effectively done.

The response of others is really out of your hands now that you have turned it over to us. "Let it be" might be your best course of action at this point. You undo the positive intent of your apology by getting petty about "who said that" and "I think I know who you are". What's next "I'll get you?"

I personally have felt many times over the years that my ebay bids were artificially built up by sellers who take "dishonest" measures to make their money. It's frustrating to have so few avenues to find the cards we seek and then have proof they are so vulnerable to fraud.

Good luck with your future dealings.

Scott.

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh K.

"fraud"????

there was no fraud here - Andy did not rip anyone off or artificially inflate anyone elses bid. this all boils down to a few buyers who are upset that andy chose to sell the card outright and prevented them from getting it at a lower price.

[Archive]

Posted By: andy becker

hi scott,
perhaps i am being a bit aggressive. point taken.

i do not think i acted selfishly. please remember that i did not "pull" an auction just because i didn't like the bidding. i tried to end the auction because i received an unsolicited offer to do so.

i do feel that i was dishonest, in regards to ebay's rules and how i circumvented them.

my remorse came from canceling bids of friends and board members.

regarding my "who said what" and "i think i know who you are", well that's where i'm getting a bit aggressive.

i think if you are going to call me a shill and provide a link to ebay's shill rules, you should at least have the courtesy to use you name and not hide.

"I personally have felt many times over the years that my ebay bids were artificially built up by sellers who take "dishonest" measures to make their money. It's frustrating to have so few avenues to find the cards we seek and then have proof they are so vulnerable to fraud."

i agree with the above statement scott, but i don't consider what i did to be anywhere near fraud.

again, i am truly sorry to those who had a genuine interest in winning the auction. BUT, there was no shill involved.
there was never, ever an attempt to sell the card for anything more than an offered price of 1500.

[Archive]

Posted By: John S

I have had numerous transactions with Andy as buyer and seller. He is a class act all the way and a true collector. To me it is amazing that people can get so bent out of shape about losing a deal...they're baseball cards for Christ's sake! Andy admitted that he was not proud of the way that the auction ended but until that point it was his card. If he wanted to wipe his rear-end with Mr. Demmitt that was his business.

So what if you didn't get your Demmitt. Get over it. There should be more important things in life. As a collector I get frustrated when I miss deals or end up as the underbidder in an auction but I barely let it ruin the moment let alone the day.

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve

I agree with John S


Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: ubiqty

The fraud comment wasn't specifically directed at you.

Feel free to replace it with "misleading actions"

Although your actions fall under the larger umbrella of "What is wrong with ebay and how can people misuse it."

Oh well. The reason why whis is relevant to me is because I recently came clean with my wife regarding my actual card purchases and amounts spent. I too tried to make right my behavior I was uncomforable with. I told her I'd be willing to sell some cards to make it right and she said OK. Now I'm trying to salvage the situation so that only a minimal portion must go. I do feel better that I came clean though. I'm sure you do too.

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

John S. if you are reffering to me by saying "you didn't win the demmitt, get over it"...believe me, i am over it, truly wasn't even a big deal, i saw the post and gave my opinion that i did not think it was cool, that's it...no biggie, there will be other demmitts out there...we're on the same page here. over and done.

[Archive]

Posted By: J Levine

but I just want to let him know that I understand what he did and good for him for letting us know. There was no shill because if there was he would have just shilled it as high as it would go, probably beyond 1500. There was no shill because he explained exactly what happened. He would not have cancelled bids just to shill, makes no sense. As to someone hiding behind an alias on this board, I am sick of that too. Andy has been a contributor, collector, and seller on this board and has been up front at all times. I have done several transactions with Andy over the years and have found him honest and reliable.

I would also like to commend MVSNYC for understanding and moving on. He got stung a little but he did not resort to name calling, fraud charges, etc. He has moved on and knows that we have all been beat on ebay at least once.

Joshua

PS My snipe was set at $925

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Evanov

I think the situation was poorly handled. In the long run it will hurt. Many people avoid sellers who cancel their bids and sell to a friend just to make some extra cash. It just leaves a bad taste.

Frank

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob

Heck, I'd prefer getting my price 7 hours into an auction rather wait 7 days. The Ebay rule of not being able to withdraw an item from sale less than 12 hours left in an auction makes the use of a bidder putting in a "hidden" reserve appropriate, so I see nothing wrong with that either.