Inquiry on this Framed 1887 N184 Baseball Sheet A42

[Directly]

I am contemplating offering this item here, any opinions on a range of value to ask. -1887 N184 Kimball Champions (A42) Four baseball Players--Sheet measures around 5 1/2 x 7 inches--a 19th Century baseball card collectible--Although no HOF players in the set , it does displays all the baseball players cards (1 1/2 x 2 1/2) portrayed in the N184 set.--A nice original piece, possibly one of the nicest examples. --professionally museum quality framed. PSA will grade and authenticate this sheet if desired. -Sheet was framed and matted when I got it , I have not remove it out of the frame-thanks in advance

[swarmee]

Send a PM to 1880nonsports , Henry should be able to give you great advice. This is right up his wheelhouse.

[Directly]

Thanks, will do!

[1880nonsports]

It's an album page. When the hobby was first introduced to these great ancillary items - a page like this would sell for around 400.00. That was then and this is now :-) You might find someone that wants it in the 100.00 to 150.00 range.... I have the entire album framed.

No guarantees whether written or implied.

[Directly]

Thanks,--since you have the page, curious is there information printed on the back of the page, or is it blank? -thanks again--

[Directly]

Versus selling at that level I'll go ahead roll the dice and submit mine for grading---

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Directly

Versus selling at that level I'll go ahead roll the dice and submit mine for grading---

What company grades these? SGC or BGS?

I don't see any in the pop report for either company.

[Leon]

This was moved from the water cooler section as it fits here better. Nice album page.
.

[bigfanNY]

Like the Goodwin pages I think TPG's will grade authentic. If you are looking for comps then I think that A&G and Goodwin single pages with no hall of famers should be close. And there have been sales recently. Although I might add an a little extra because the display is outstanding. If you come up with a number let me know.
Jonathan

[bigfanNY]

I found that Heritage sold a complete Kimball Album in 2021 for $1015 including the juice. Hope that helps.

[Directly]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

I found that Heritage sold a complete Kimball Album in 2021 for $1015 including the juice. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the input --if any card or album was raw or graded may have impact on the final hammer price.- say a 7 or 8 grade may possibly add a multiplier say 6 or 7 X times is this a reasonable assumption--I do have reservations removing the page from the museum quality frame but would be interesting to submit for grading.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Directly

Thanks for the input --if any card or album was raw or graded may have impact on the final hammer price.- say a 7 or 8 grade may possibly add a multiplier say 6 or 7 X times is this a reasonable assumption--I do have reservations removing the page from the museum quality frame but would be interesting to submit for grading.

You still haven't answered if any company actually grades these. Why remove it if the service doesn't exist? And no, I don't think you'll see a multiplier like that on these album sheets for high grades. Most "collectors" would rather have a complete album than high grade individual sheets.

[bigfanNY]

John R in the OP it says:

"PSA will grade and authenticate this sheet if desired. -Sheet was framed and matted when I got it , I have not remove it out of the frame-thanks in advance:"

I looked on PSA pop report and it looks like one A&G album page is there with one card/ page graded 1. I think anyone here who collects odd sized cards etc. And tried to have them graded can attest to the fact that any TPG is going to apply the same standard to an album page as a 2020 Topps chrome Autograph. And the end result is generally a much lower number grade than anticipated.
The owner that paid to have the page framed knew that the price they were paying to frame the page would probably never be recouped. But to share such an attractive page with his family and friends was worth the price. Not to mention the joy he got from looking at it in his daily life.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

John R in the OP it says:
"PSA will grade and authenticate this sheet if desired.

Thanks. I forgot that, I guess. I still don't think that it would drastically increase the price, plus it would be in a very large bulky plastic case. And I don't know of a player registry that it would go in.

[bigfanNY]

I agree that it will not change price drastically. Just a case where rare dose not equal valuable.


J

[Directly]

Rarity X Graded Condition X Availability X 2 = Value

Just takes 2 buyers wanting the the best available--

[bigfanNY]

But wouldn't the best example of this still be attached to an album? Look at the W600 thread and you will see that some remarkably well preserved examples do not grade very well. It is Your item. But grading is gonna cost more than most A&G and goodwin comps have sold for recently. It is a page taken out of a book ( not even the best page from this book) The collector or collectors who want the best want the book. That sold recently for a grand.
Book x 10 pages = 1015 > 10 pages no longer in book.

[Directly]

If the page has any creases, stained, or paper loss I agree. If the page is pristine , might a graded page have better value than ungraded. Example, isn't a Graded T206 Cobb usually a better investment and more desirable than ungraded ? ( Only the baseball page would be of interest to most baseball card collectors)

[1880nonsports]

Sorry for the orientation.....

[Directly]

Your display looks nice! I flipped the picture for a better view-***** I bet you get some inquires asking if your display is available for sale **** (question do you know if the reverses are blank)-thanks for posting!

[bigfanNY]

I am bumping this thread to illustrate how in the OP the Owner / seller of this item states that PSA will authenticate and grade the sheet.

[Directly]

Yes PSA Slabbed as authentic--here's the deal 90 percent of collectors wouldn't even have a clue the year or whom made, etc. or even if 19th Century--the flip identifies and answers these questions--and in my opinion being slabbed makes it more presentable.-PSA did a nice job- I'm pleased --thanks for asking.

[swarmee]

Yep, very cool. Wonder if any company grades tobacco card proof sheets. I love the Murad College Series I bought from a Net54er.

[Jay Wolt]

Tom it looks great in the large PSA slab

[Directly]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Tom it looks great in the large PSA slab

Thanks, appreciate your post, a list of available PSA slabs. ( try the PSA Research Request for asking about slabbing obscure items)

Standard - 2 11/16" x 3 13/16"
Tall Boy - 3 1/2" x 5 1/6"
Supersized (Ticket) - 3 5/8" x 7 1/2"
Supersized (Check) - 4 1/4" x 10"
T-3 Holder - 5 3/4" x 8"
Jumbo* – 8.5" x 11", 6.25" x 8.25", 7.5" x 9.5", 8.1" x 10.1"

[bigfanNY]

Originally Posted by Directly

I am contemplating offering this item here, any opinions on a range of value to ask. -1887 N184 Kimball Champions (A42) Four baseball Players--Sheet measures around 5 1/2 x 7 inches--a 19th Century baseball card collectible--Although no HOF players in the set , it does displays all the baseball players cards (1 1/2 x 2 1/2) portrayed in the N184 set.--A nice original piece, possibly one of the nicest examples. --professionally museum quality framed. PSA will grade and authenticate this sheet if desired. -Sheet was framed and matted when I got it , I have not remove it out of the frame-thanks in advance

I am glad you are happy that PSA slabbed it but you clearly stated in YOUR post above that PSA will GRADE AND AUTHENTICATE the page. You continue this assertion after it is pointed out to you that PSA had examined other album pages and did not grade any of them. They were all slabbed as authentic. You also state that your page when graded will be worth 6 to 7x what an un slabbed and ungraded page is worth. I point this out because after buying and selling here on net54 for 10 years You are the only person who has ever sold or traded me a card that was not what you said it was. In fact you sold a forgorie here on net 54 and I think everyone here should be warned exactly what kind of seller you are.
They should look over the threads you started here so they can see what type of seller you are.

[Directly]

A good example of buyers remorse, this fellow didn't read the description, and was refunded in full here---I've sold over 3,000 items--sorry its true, didn't you get a refund as I referred to my description, I will do fine without your 100.00 purchase--******I will be expecting a apology on your warning statement*****

[bigfanNY]

Tom No Appologie will be coming. I 100% stand behind my statement and I am happy to clarify it for you. You sold an autographed card you said was good ( where I come from that is called giving yor word) it was not. And it was the only purchase here on Net54 in 10 years that was not what a fellow board member said it was. Ten years ago or ten minutes ago selling something that is not what YOU say it is on Net54 is not buyers remorse.
My recomendation that fellow board members that they read your threads before doing business with you is wholly appropriate. Like this item which you previously stated would be Authenticated AND Graded by PSA. You did not say they might grade it or "I hope they grade it" you state in an offer to sell this item that it will be Graded by PSA. No one here belived your lie and the item did not sell. And I saw a few other statements you made in your threads that would have given me pause if I was considering any purchase from you. And that was all my "Warning" said was to look at your threads and decide for themselves. Again a statement I stand behind

[bigfanNY]

For those who have an interest this is the entire text of the Card that was listed.

For sale Lebron James auto in blue sharpie on a 2004 Upper Deck card---nice Lebron James collectable- no COA-- SOLD--shipped USPS Priority

That was it so I am not sure what the OP is saying I missed that led to "Buyers Remorse" I submitted the card to PSA who failed the item. Then I showed the item to 3 dealers at a show and all 3 said NG. That is what led to me returning the card. And it was not $100 as the OP stated it was $175. Again illustrating that the OP is very lose with things like facts and the truth
I too have sold Autographed items without a COA but Before I did I showed the item to Autograph Collectors whose opinions I trust. And if I had purchased this item from ebay I would have showed it around before submitting it. But as I stated my experiance buying and selling on Net54 told me a level of trust was there that clearly dose not exist with this seller.

[Directly]

I'm curious why you bought it--please explain--if you have been on this site for ten years why didn't you share here and get a option?--I've been buying and selling sports memorabilia when you were in diapers sucking your thumb--in my option a pure example of Buyer remorse or Greed. I imagine your one that would leave a negative on a 99 cent item--collectors have sent in autos for authentication and been rejected even though they got them in person!--when you ask if I would refund before you purchased I said yes, which I did--

[bigfanNY]

Your colors came out quick. You ask why I bought it not a surprise to many here I collect Basketball so it was for my PC. Then you ask why I didn't ask for opinions here. I think that shows exactly what kind of seller you are. As I stated above when I sold autographed items with no COA I did my best to insure that they were real by doing just that. But buying here on Net54 was different for many years it was easy to trust that sellers stood behind their word so when I messaged you and asked if you would guarantee it was good and you said yes I believed you. I thought anyone selling here who guarantees a signature is good would have taken the same care I would. I was wrong and all I can do is let everyone here know what kind of seller you are.
As for would I leave a negative feedback for a 99 cent item, I would if it was a fake or a forgery. Because it is important to let other buyers and sellers know when this sort of thing happens. As for you buying and selling since I was in Diapers. I attended my first card show in 1973 and was hooked after my first purchase an E95 Cobb. So we can add that to your list of incorrect statements. But all of them pale to the fact you sold a forgery here on net54. You did not defend your card you mention you read that some signed T206's were passed by PSA nothing like I bought it from a source I have delt with for decades or anything that would let me know you took even the smallest care before you sold me the card. You wouldn't even refund my postage despite 100% of the reason I had to return the card was your fault. Only one type of seller dose things like this and You are clearly in that category.

[Directly]

Seems I'm on trial here--In my opening statement to the jury please let me refer to the movie, --My Cousin Vinny----"everything this guy said is full of ---"

[bigfanNY]

Originally Posted by Directly

Seems I'm on trial here--In my opening statement to the jury please let me refer to the movie, --My Cousin Vinny----"everything this guy said is full of ---"

I think my title is a fair assessment of our transaction. Your quote from My cousin Vinny seems to say you think I am wrong in my assessment. But even your quote is wrong ( watch the youtube clip) and your posts back up everything I say.
The number of folks who have read this thread grew from 400 or so to over 3000. This often happens with threads where less than desirable sellers like yourself are bought out into the light. The title says it all. No trial here the facts are clear. And my recommendation that anyone thinking about doing business with you read your Threads is 100% appropriate.

[Directly]

This maybe getting a little boring for the readers, you can step it up a notch and make it more amusing if you wish, PayPal me $1500. I will put your cash in my pocket then you will have a real legit reason to bitch and get your shorts into knots--I want to be very it clear to the readers, I have never had to steal to make a living!--
Now about the $1500 that's your call not mine!